Wheeler Scope Level Problem

[birdiemc]

I noticed last time I was shooting (had just recently mounted a new scope) my reticle seemed very canted, but since I had used my handy dandy wheeler engineering scope level level tool, or whatever it's called, I figured I must have been holding my rifle all wrong, but it sure as heck didnt feel right when I had the cross hairs where they appeared to be level. So tonight I decided to recheck and realized that both of the spirit levels that came in the set I bought are off. The one for the bolt raceway is only off by a few degrees, but the other one is not even close. Not sure why I trusted them straight out of the box, I'm a home builder and when I go buy a new level I check every one in the store to find the cheapest one that's the most accurate.
Just figured I would pass this little tidbit along as a reminder to those who know but might forget like I did, or for those who might not know. To check a level place it on a flat level surface, rotate it 180 degrees the bubble should stay centered. Can do it without level surface, just note where the bubble is before rotating, it should land in the same position on the opposite side of the tube, if that makes sense.

 

[pburton]

I had the same problem with the Wheeler level. I use a different level now that works great, its the Tank reticle level by Xtreme Hardcore Gear. I also stopped using an action level. Now I place my rifles in a gun vise, install the lower portion of the rings and level the rifle off of them. This has worked well so far.

 

[dfanonymous]

That because the tool is impractical the way most people use it. You really only need the loose level and some 550 cord...which you can get at home depot for couple bucks.

So your reticle is crooked because when manufacturers install the parts...specifically the reticle, despite wired or etched...its not in the scope "perfect." Leveling the body of the scope...usually from the turret doesn't mean that the reticle is plumb. As you are all figuring out.

Fix= Get into an open area...with the greatest distance you can where you can hang something. at least 15 yards. Set up the 550 cord by hanging it on something and tie a weight at the end of it and let it hang. This will be your plump line and you will want your rifle facing it during the rest of the set up.

Put the rifle in a vice, a actual vice or a tipton or whatever will work, as long as there is minimal movement, then throw a level on it and lock the rifle in and throw shims in as need to make sure that the rifle is level. I use the scope mount to put the level on and 3rd axis doesn't matter.

Put the rings on and scope on. The rifle should be locked in and not moving still being level. Put the top rings top on and start the screws but before getting them too tight that you can move the scope, get your eye relief set up then move the reticle so vertically it is aligned with the plumb line you hung.

Start to tighten the screws and keep checking the scope to see if the reticle is still in-line with the plumb line. When the screws are tight enough that the scope won't move with finger pressure, start torquing them bitches down. Should be a given, but use the cross method when torquing screws down as it will move the scope if one side gets more love then the other. I DO use the wheeler fatboy torq driver i think it's called. Works great.

Anyways, this is the only way I know of for one hundo percent will give you a level reticle. If you use a bubble, just add the level on loosely before putting the scope on the rings. Do all other steps then at the end, before pulling it out of the vice, move it to level, then tighten it down and use blue threadtite on all screws from the base to the rings. You won't have problems.

Before "that guy" comes on here and tries to justify why his wheeler leveling kit is the best thing since the potato, if you think about it, the tolerance of scopes and lenses put in, some are bound to align perfectly with the scope turrets, so once in awhile it works. For the rest of us that know it's not level, using a plumb line on a level rifle is the only practical way.

Lastly, Sniperhide has mrad targets that are to scale at 100y. You can use those too, as well as to check scope turret tracking.

I'm tired of typing. Your welcome.

 

[jimbires]

good article on setting up your scope .

https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/reticle-perpendicularity.34/

 

[codyadams]

That because the tool is impractical the way most people use it. You really only need the loose level and some 550 cord...which you can get at home depot for couple bucks.

So your reticle is crooked because when manufacturers install the parts...specifically the reticle, despite wired or etched...its not in the scope "perfect." Leveling the body of the scope...usually from the turret doesn't mean that the reticle is plumb. As you are all figuring out.

Fix= Get into an open area...with the greatest distance you can where you can hang something. at least 15 yards. Set up the 550 cord by hanging it on something and tie a weight at the end of it and let it hang. This will be your plump line and you will want your rifle facing it during the rest of the set up.

Put the rifle in a vice, a actual vice or a tipton or whatever will work, as long as there is minimal movement, then throw a level on it and lock the rifle in and throw shims in as need to make sure that the rifle is level. I use the scope mount to put the level on and 3rd axis doesn't matter.

Put the rings on and scope on. The rifle should be locked in and not moving still being level. Put the top rings top on and start the screws but before getting them too tight that you can move the scope, get your eye relief set up then move the reticle so vertically it is aligned with the plumb line you hung.

Start to tighten the screws and keep checking the scope to see if the reticle is still in-line with the plumb line. When the screws are tight enough that the scope won't move with finger pressure, start torquing them bitches down. Should be a given, but use the cross method when torquing screws down as it will move the scope if one side gets more love then the other. I DO use the wheeler fatboy torq driver i think it's called. Works great.

Anyways, this is the only way I know of for one hundo percent will give you a level reticle. If you use a bubble, just add the level on loosely before putting the scope on the rings. Do all other steps then at the end, before pulling it out of the vice, move it to level, then tighten it down and use blue threadtite on all screws from the base to the rings. You won't have problems.

Before "that guy" comes on here and tries to justify why his wheeler leveling kit is the best thing since the potato, if you think about it, the tolerance of scopes and lenses put in, some are bound to align perfectly with the scope turrets, so once in awhile it works. For the rest of us that know it's not level, using a plumb line on a level rifle is the only practical way.

Lastly, Sniperhide has mrad targets that are to scale at 100y. You can use those too, as well as to check scope turret tracking.

I'm tired of typing. Your welcome.

Not arguing at all, I agree with you, just adding, and you kind of hit it anyway.

So that would work perfect for reticle hold over shooting, and you could call it a day, but if the reticle is put in the scope crooked (as could happen, especially with lower end optics) and you dial for correction, if the scope turret mechanism is not exactly aligned with the axis of the reticle, then it could still induce some unintended windage when dialing, especially for farther distances.

I think a good way to ensure that this is not happening, is level your scope with whatever method you have available, but to double check that everything is plumb, including the turret mechanism, get a tall target board, like minimum of 30", preferably more like 60", which may max out some scopes. You probably see where I'm going. Using a strait edge, draw a line from the bottom to top on some butcher paper stapled to the target board, ensuring that the line is perfectly strait, or print off targets as dfanonymous stated, but make sure they are stapled strait on your target board. Then, set up the target at 100 yards, and ensure with a level, that the line or targets are perfectly level. On a side note....don't do this in high winds. Have an aim point at the bottom of the target. Fire a shot at the aim point to ensure zero. Then, dial up a bunch, 15-20 MOA, and fire a couple shots using the same aim point, and continue doing this until you maxed out either your target or scope. Dial back to zero and fire a shot or two, just to check that your scope is tracking as well. It is vitally important that on every shot you are ensuring that your rifle is plumb by use of the level you most certainly installed on your scope, or the internal electronic scope level as some now have. If you don't have a level on/in your scope, this entire conversation is pointless, and you need to get one to do it right. All your shots should be on the line all the way up. If they are consistently veering off to one side or another, assuming you did everything right, your scope is tilted in that direction, and it needs to be corrected. A little goes a long ways. Tilt it some, rezero, then dial to your max that you dialed, and shoot to see if you are on the line.

This is the best real world double check that I know of to ensure everything is gtg in the field. Simple procedure, takes a lot of hot air to explain it. Sorry for the novel.

 

[KyCarl]

I use a Starrett 130 bench level and a plum bob? It has worked fine for me.
Starrett tools are more accurate than those Wheelers IMO.
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/130

 

[tribb]

That because the tool is impractical the way most people use it. You really only need the loose level and some 550 cord...which you can get at home depot for couple bucks.

So your reticle is crooked because when manufacturers install the parts...specifically the reticle, despite wired or etched...its not in the scope "perfect." Leveling the body of the scope...usually from the turret doesn't mean that the reticle is plumb. As you are all figuring out.

Fix= Get into an open area...with the greatest distance you can where you can hang something. at least 15 yards. Set up the 550 cord by hanging it on something and tie a weight at the end of it and let it hang. This will be your plump line and you will want your rifle facing it during the rest of the set up.

Put the rifle in a vice, a actual vice or a tipton or whatever will work, as long as there is minimal movement, then throw a level on it and lock the rifle in and throw shims in as need to make sure that the rifle is level. I use the scope mount to put the level on and 3rd axis doesn't matter.

Put the rings on and scope on. The rifle should be locked in and not moving still being level. Put the top rings top on and start the screws but before getting them too tight that you can move the scope, get your eye relief set up then move the reticle so vertically it is aligned with the plumb line you hung.

Start to tighten the screws and keep checking the scope to see if the reticle is still in-line with the plumb line. When the screws are tight enough that the scope won't move with finger pressure, start torquing them bitches down. Should be a given, but use the cross method when torquing screws down as it will move the scope if one side gets more love then the other. I DO use the wheeler fatboy torq driver i think it's called. Works great.

Anyways, this is the only way I know of for one hundo percent will give you a level reticle. If you use a bubble, just add the level on loosely before putting the scope on the rings. Do all other steps then at the end, before pulling it out of the vice, move it to level, then tighten it down and use blue threadtite on all screws from the base to the rings. You won't have problems.

Before "that guy" comes on here and tries to justify why his wheeler leveling kit is the best thing since the potato, if you think about it, the tolerance of scopes and lenses put in, some are bound to align perfectly with the scope turrets, so once in awhile it works. For the rest of us that know it's not level, using a plumb line on a level rifle is the only practical way.

Lastly, Sniperhide has mrad targets that are to scale at 100y. You can use those too, as well as to check scope turret tracking.

I'm tired of typing. Your welcome

Not arguing at all, I agree with you, just adding, and you kind of hit it anyway.

So that would work perfect for reticle hold over shooting, and you could call it a day, but if the reticle is put in the scope crooked (as could happen, especially with lower end optics) and you dial for correction, if the scope turret mechanism is not exactly aligned with the axis of the reticle, then it could still induce some unintended windage when dialing, especially for farther distances.

I think a good way to ensure that this is not happening, is level your scope with whatever method you have available, but to double check that everything is plumb, including the turret mechanism, get a tall target board, like minimum of 30", preferably more like 60", which may max out some scopes. You probably see where I'm going. Using a strait edge, draw a line from the bottom to top on some butcher paper stapled to the target board, ensuring that the line is perfectly strait, or print off targets as dfanonymous stated, but make sure they are stapled strait on your target board. Then, set up the target at 100 yards, and ensure with a level, that the line or targets are perfectly level. On a side note....don't do this in high winds. Have an aim point at the bottom of the target. Fire a shot at the aim point to ensure zero. Then, dial up a bunch, 15-20 MOA, and fire a couple shots using the same aim point, and continue doing this until you maxed out either your target or scope. Dial back to zero and fire a shot or two, just to check that your scope is tracking as well. It is vitally important that on every shot you are ensuring that your rifle is plumb by use of the level you most certainly installed on your scope, or the internal electronic scope level as some now have. If you don't have a level on/in your scope, this entire conversation is pointless, and you need to get one to do it right. All your shots should be on the line all the way up. If they are consistently veering off to one side or another, assuming you did everything right, your scope is tilted in that direction, and it needs to be corrected. A little goes a long ways. Tilt it some, rezero, then dial to your max that you dialed, and shoot to see if you are on the line.

This is the best real world double check that I know of to ensure everything is gtg in the field. Simple procedure, takes a lot of hot air to explain it. Sorry for the novel.

Good information here!