What's the beef with belted magnums?

[Broz]

Upacreek, you are wise for doing research. Hand loading today offers a lot of new things to consider. But our rifles shoot very well because of it. A 300 win will serve you well. My son "Young_Gun" just sold his custom 300 win so he could build a LRLM in 338 Terminator +P. We are already looking for a Sendero in 300 win for him as a mid sized magnum. The 300 win fills a great gap between a 6mm and a 338.

Good Luck
Jeff

 

[Wildboar]

If you set up your dies correctly, whether they are a FL set or even a bushing style die set, you will NEVER need that collet die you refer to, it addresses a problem that is caused by HANDLOADERS, not the cartridge design.
I have been loading for belted cases since I was 15 years old, 1985, and have NEVER come across this so called bulge that the die somehow doesn't size away, all cases have an expansion line, it's where the case wall meets the solid web in the case, no matter whether there is a belt or not, this portion of the case DOES get sized and in either case it is only partially sized anyway. The belt cannot be sized because it is adjacent to the solid web, and heavier charges WILL expand the belt beyond the point that it will chamber easily because the entire solid web has swollen beyond it's usefulness.
I wish people would find out the facts about these these things rather than listening to witch doctors, snake charmers and potion sellers.
Once again, I will state that a collet die to fix a problem that doesn't exist is a total waste of MONEY.

Cheers.
gun)

I have to disagree with you on this one. There isn't a standard fl die on the market that will size all the way down to the belt. Period! There is a gap between the belt and where the die comes down to and the case web can swell in that area. I can take unsized once fired brass from another rifle and measure this expansion, which has no bearing on reloading techniques. Maybe some of us just load "heavier" thanyou do and you haven't experienced this. The reason I shoot a magnum is because I load "heavy", if not I'd buy a .308. There is a reason they make small base dies for calibers such as .223. Is that because of a large number of incompetent, witch doctoring snake charmers? No it's because there is an issue in some circumstances that cause greater case web expansion and the normal dies don't resize this area. Regardless if you think it's hokey or snake oil, I had 250 pcs of WBY brass that wouldn't chamber in my rifle after fl sizing. The collet die sized the area in question and I have been able to load and fire all 250 cases. I have also loaned out my die for quite a few other witch doctors, ie. reloaders, to use on there brass and all were able to save hundred of cases that they were going to cull, a lot being once fired.
I can see how this might not happen in rifles with tight chambers or with loads that are on the milder side, and therefore no need.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Belt = More things to check.

Accuracy is not the issue.

 

[DocB]

I have to disagree with you on this one. There isn't a standard fl die on the market that will size all the way down to the belt. Period! There is a gap between the belt and where the die comes down to and the case web can swell in that area. /QUOTE]


I beg to differ...

go to..

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment

and check out the "Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.

It might be just what you were looking for.

DocB

 

[Wildboar]

I have to disagree with you on this one. There isn't a standard fl die on the market that will size all the way down to the belt. Period! There is a gap between the belt and where the die comes down to and the case web can swell in that area. /QUOTE]


I beg to differ...

go to..

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment

and check out the "Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.

It might be just what you were looking for.

DocB

Doc,
That is the exact collet sizer I was referring to in my earlier post. It has saved me almost 300 pcs of brass. Great product. It is the only die that I know of that deals with the issue I presented. Some may not have that issue but a lot do and the collet die specifically deals with that issue. Thanks for the link.

 

[Daveinjax]

Best bet is to skip the belted magnums and go with a beltless design. 300 RUM maybe ? Look around and find a modern design without the belt to work around. JMO.

 

[DocB]

Doc,
That is the exact collet sizer I was referring to in my earlier post. It has saved me almost 300 pcs of brass. Great product. It is the only die that I know of that deals with the issue I presented. Some may not have that issue but a lot do and the collet die specifically deals with that issue. Thanks for the link.

Roger that. Mr. Wills has some nice gadgets! lol.

I've purchased this die but have not had the chance to use it yet. I'm still overseas but will be coming home soon to a new 300WM and as my wife says "all my new toys" lol. I'm really looking forward to getting it set up and my handloading started.

Best thing is.. she wants to reload for her 5.56 also!! Awesome! lol

DocB

 

[MagnumManiac]

I have to disagree with you on this one. There isn't a standard fl die on the market that will size all the way down to the belt. Period! There is a gap between the belt and where the die comes down to and the case web can swell in that area. I can take unsized once fired brass from another rifle and measure this expansion, which has no bearing on reloading techniques. Maybe some of us just load "heavier" thanyou do and you haven't experienced this. The reason I shoot a magnum is because I load "heavy", if not I'd buy a .308. There is a reason they make small base dies for calibers such as .223. Is that because of a large number of incompetent, witch doctoring snake charmers? No it's because there is an issue in some circumstances that cause greater case web expansion and the normal dies don't resize this area. Regardless if you think it's hokey or snake oil, I had 250 pcs of WBY brass that wouldn't chamber in my rifle after fl sizing. The collet die sized the area in question and I have been able to load and fire all 250 cases. I have also loaned out my die for quite a few other witch doctors, ie. reloaders, to use on there brass and all were able to save hundred of cases that they were going to cull, a lot being once fired.
I can see how this might not happen in rifles with tight chambers or with loads that are on the milder side, and therefore no need.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.
As far as I'm aware, the Larry Willis die DOES NOT resize the belt but the expansion ring that somehow isn't sized by ANY FL DIE. I just measured a fired case at this point, it measured .5125", after I sized it, it measures .5105", it appears to me that a lot of misinformation is bandied about on this, no where did I mention that the belt gets resized, only the fact that a CORRECTLY adjusted die WILL and DOES resize the case correctly even when only bumping the shoulder.
I have seen your dilemma with your Weatherby cases, but it wasn't due to the belt expanding, it was due to the case elongating when sized and the shoulder not being bumped enough, when the case was coloured to see where it was scrubbing, a false reading was given just above the belt because the case was being pushed sideways, if it was the expansion ring, it would have been touching the full circumference, not just one side.
Many conclusions have been touted as to why this occurrs, but I can tell you the most common cause to belted mag reloading problems is over sizing which causes the cases to stretch just above the belt over few firings, which in turn causes the cases to swell at this point due to thinning.
I will also say, that if you do have to FL size your cases, if the shell holder is not in full cotact with the die when a case is installed, it is NOT being FL sized. If there is a gap of any description, your're not sizing correctly if you want you cases FL sized.

Cheers.
gun)