What is the max range of my elk hunting load?

[meatyrem]

Re: Bullet "energy" matters!

You obviously haven't studied a lot of wound channels. A 12-gauge slug will tear a hole through an animal that is slightly larger than the slug. That is penetration damage. Expect a similar wound channel from a .375 H&H magnum at 400-500 yards. A 7-mm Rem magnum with an expanding bullet fired into a deer's chest at close range will often leave an exit-wound 6-8" across. That exit wound does not mean the bullet expanded to the size of a cannonball. It means the hydrostatic shock caused by the energy of the projectile was enough to liquify tissue. Likewise, I have shot woodchucks in the head with a high-speed bullet & had the shockwave split open the belly & gut the animal. Once again, this does not mean the bullet deflected & cut open the belly, it means the shock was enough to blow out the critter's guts. That shockwave is purely a result of the energy of the projectile. Energy levels undoubtedly matter. If I shoot a deer in the chest with my .25-06 inside 150 yards, I expect the lungs to be liquified — purely a result of the rapid energy transfer.

What I have never seen is a formula that correlates energy of a projectile directly into "kill-power". There are simply too many variables. A .22-.250 has lots of energy due to its speed but little kill-power on large game because of the light bullets and limited penetration. Fragile bullets transfer energy faster than solids but don't penetrate as well. Obviously, energy is not everything, but dismissing "energy" is silly.

I'm not saying to dismiss energy all together. You are correct with your statement but i think energy is a very tricky term. But without the right amount of velocity then for the bullet to expand then energy won't happen. A bullet that hits its target has energy carried with it but it is useless if it doesnt expand.

 

[mtntrapper1]

Did we ever hear about the young hunters results on his hunt?

Ive shot elk and no problems to 275 yards with a 243. 500 yards with a 270. 600 yards with a 300 Wby. All dropped close by, but all were good hits. In open country and thick, Idaho and MT. Take good shots and take no unnecessary risky shots. It also depends on the terrain as a few have stated for game retrieval and how far you are back in. Shoot what you like, shoot it well and know your limitations.

I hope the youngster did well and had a good first hunt leading to many more.



Kids that Hunt Trap and Fish, Dont Mug Little Old Ladies, Teach em' young and take em' outdoors and they will live it for good.

 

[meatyrem]

Did we ever hear about the young hunters results on his hunt?

Ive shot elk and no problems to 275 yards with a 243. 500 yards with a 270. 600 yards with a 300 Wby. All dropped close by, but all were good hits. In open country and thick, Idaho and MT. Take good shots and take no unnecessary risky shots. It also depends on the terrain as a few have stated for game retrieval and how far you are back in. Shoot what you like, shoot it well and know your limitations.

I hope the youngster did well and had a good first hunt leading to many more.



Kids that Hunt Trap and Fish, Dont Mug Little Old Ladies, Teach em' young and take em' outdoors and they will live it for good.

Well said-meaty

 

[Silverdoctor]

I hunt elk with a 300 win mag and 180 grain superformance amo... the longest shot I think is an ethical shot is 600 yards... beyond that, I am not sure I am going to kill a bull outright and they are very tough animals that can go a long way with even a solid hit on them... If I had a choice, I would try and get within 400 yards to be sure...

 

[mtntrapper1]

Meaty- Thanks, I have been to U.P. Mich many years ago, That was some neat country also. Dont know if you are up there or Mainland Mich. Many fine shots to you!

 

[Wodje96]

With a good no shoulder bone shot that 25 will punch both lungs easily, that's all we do with an arrow and animals don't go far. Hit some shoulder bone, especially with a soft bullet and you'll not have a good result (even with a big gun), but I'd keep it under 400yd and be very picky about the shot or just buy a 30 mag use tough bullets and shoot where the shot presents itself. 2 cents.

 

[meatyrem]

Meaty- Thanks, I have been to U.P. Mich many years ago, That was some neat country also. Dont know if you are up there or Mainland Mich. Many fine shots to you!

Mtntrapper1,

I am in the southern most part of MI right in the center near Indiana. Open farm country. We got corn fed dear here. I have been in the UP and it is awesome up there. Went there for a bear hunt in Baraga in 2006 and ready to go there soon. Really itchin cuz the last time I didn't get a bear but (either too small or sows) but the 280 Rem will be ready and so will I.

 

[Sauer 150]

Zero yards. You need to buy an elk rifle.

+1 !!!!

25-06 is a great choice for antelope and smaller dear. It's not an elk round

 

[bigngreen]

+1 !!!!

25-06 is a great choice for antelope and smaller dear. It's not an elk round

That cracks me up, never seen an elk argue with a 25 cal bullet put behind his shoulder, we kill an elk or two in our group every year with a 250AI with zero issues, granted we keep it under a few hundred yards on elk. We've smoked a few big mule bucks out in the 600 yard mark and they seem dead as a knob within seconds of bullet impact!!

I know a couple guys with 40+elk with a 25-06, I better let them know they can't kill elk with one

 

[mtntrapper1]

I ditto Bigngreen, I lived in SW Mt for many years also. Ive shot and seen others also shoot with .25 size rounds on elk for years. I also shot many whitetail, antelope, and a few big mulies in close with a 220 swift. Its how you place the shot, the bullets you shoot, how far away you are, and what kind of shot you are.


Kids that Hunt Trap and Fish, Dont Mug Little Old Ladies, Teach em' young and take em' outdoors and they will live it for good.


Bigngreen, Did you know Sarge Hoem ? Ex Mt Game Warden now.

 

[Sauer 150]

We can pull this all the way out.

I have also killed a spike moose with a 22-250 shooting a 53 grs TSX. Not touting it as a moose round....

You can kill an elk with a lucky placed 22 - does this make it an elk round ?

One smart individual here has in his Signature - Elk rifles starts with a caliber.33...There is ELk and there is Elk. I have some relatives on the Canadian Wescouast near Vancouver. I would like to see anyone showing up for a Roosevelt Bull Elk with a quarter bore. The outfitter would most probaly throw you out of camp

Shooting elk at a 1000y with a 25-06 can only be described as a (stupid) stunt, you may get lucky if everything is in your favour. If anything happens that makes the shot being less than 100% lucky you have a crippled animal. Selecting a caliber and bullet which will not penetrate a shoulder to reach the vitals - as said before ..................... stunt performed by someone with highly questionable ethics.

You do not pick a round that can kill a specific game if everything is 100% optimal. You pick the gun/caliber combination that will give you some margins when things are less than so.

Hunting is difficult enough as it is - why would anyone wanna give away all margins by choosing a marginal caliber???

 

[gillettehunter]

I think some of you have missed the point. It was go with a 25-06 or DON'T go at all. 24 years old and its what he has. Put a good bullet in it and limit yourself to 350 yards. Don't take a marginal shot. Preferably as heavy of a bullet as you can get. The 120 gr partition is a good one to look at. The 110 gr Accubond would do fine. I've been killing a lot of animals w/ the TTSX and it would work.
A good friend of mine has killed way over 60 elk. He always used a .270 w/ a 130gr bullet. The 25-06 w/ the 120 partition isn't giving up much to his load. Elk are big and they are tough, especially w/ a marginal shot or when their adrenalyn is up. Most of us will agree that a 25-06 is not ideal for the job, but it will work if care is taken.
I've taken 25-30 elk and most were taken w/ a .270. I'm currently using a .300WSM. He'll get hooked on elk hunting and get something more appropriate. He may just have to pass up 50% of his shot opportunities to get the right one. My .02 for what its worth. Bruce

 

[elkaholic]

I think some of you have missed the point. It was go with a 25-06 or DON'T go at all. 24 years old and its what he has. Put a good bullet in it and limit yourself to 350 yards. Don't take a marginal shot. Preferably as heavy of a bullet as you can get. The 120 gr partition is a good one to look at. The 110 gr Accubond would do fine. I've been killing a lot of animals w/ the TTSX and it would work.
A good friend of mine has killed way over 60 elk. He always used a .270 w/ a 130gr bullet. The 25-06 w/ the 120 partition isn't giving up much to his load. Elk are big and they are tough, especially w/ a marginal shot or when their adrenalyn is up. Most of us will agree that a 25-06 is not ideal for the job, but it will work if care is taken.
I've taken 25-30 elk and most were taken w/ a .270. I'm currently using a .300WSM. He'll get hooked on elk hunting and get something more appropriate. He may just have to pass up 50% of his shot opportunities to get the right one. My .02 for what its worth. Bruce

Load your son up some 120 partitions and go have fun until he gets something larger. The first elk that I ever killed when I moved to North Idaho 37 years ago was with just that rifle and load at 1/4 mile. He dropped in his tracks with a shoulder shot. OF COURSE THERE ARE BETTER ELK RIFLES, but that doesn't mean he should stay home. I've killed at least 25 elk with a bore that is only .007" larger and some were with only 125 grain partitions. Keep your shots at a reasonable distance and a partition in the boiler room will get the job done......Rich

 

[Silverdoctor]

Hard to believe some of the posts on this subject. Please, teach young hunters that to hunt in an ethical manner you should always use a rifle and ammunition that is appropriate for the game you are hunting and you should never take a shot that is beyond the range you have practiced at and are confident. I am not impressed by people bragging about how they have killed elk at long range with a small caliber rifle... that is just plain stupid. Many professional guides will not even take you out unless you have a large caliber rifle and a 180 grain bullet. And for good reason... they don't want you to wound and lose a fine animal. Try replacing your ego with some common sense. A 25-06 is too small for elk. The largest good bullet available is only 120 grains and even at high velocity (like a Superformance SST) it is just not enough to consistently kill a large animal like a bull elk... even at as little as 100 yards. It is a ridiculous premise.