Mikecr
Well-Known Member
You should start another thread for another subject of your own.
VLD Seating Depth
- Thread starter brant89
- Start date
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BrentM
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I am struggling to follow your process. You are not happy with velocity and not happy with accuracy. Your accuracy falls off as you increase velocity via more powder............correct me if I am wrong.
If the above is true then I suggest this:
-seat the bullets around .010-0.015 off the lands and test the charge weight until you start to see pressure signs: bolt lift, flat primers/cratering, ejector marks.
-Lower charge weight .5 grains from max.
- conduct seating test such as .010, .025, .050, .075, .100, .125.
One of those should give you a good group to work with. Then you can + or - the powder charge a little or change depth a + or - .005 to get best results.
IMO- I would not mess with a low charge weight for any sort of LR application. You are leaving all the potential of the rifle on the table.
If the above is true then I suggest this:
-seat the bullets around .010-0.015 off the lands and test the charge weight until you start to see pressure signs: bolt lift, flat primers/cratering, ejector marks.
-Lower charge weight .5 grains from max.
- conduct seating test such as .010, .025, .050, .075, .100, .125.
One of those should give you a good group to work with. Then you can + or - the powder charge a little or change depth a + or - .005 to get best results.
IMO- I would not mess with a low charge weight for any sort of LR application. You are leaving all the potential of the rifle on the table.
brant89
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry if my process has been a bit difficult to follow. I would agree that I probably should have approached this differently but my frustration may have gotten the better of me.
Aside from my unorthodox methods, I did get out to shoot today and I shot a 10 shot group. The results are below and I would greatly appreciate some input from the more experienced shooters here ( if it wasn't already apparent I'm fairly new to LR shooting and this is my second LR rig). I am beginning to think that the issue may be me because the shot placement here was in random order. I made sure to keep my cheek on the rifle the entire time so I believe my cheek weld is consistent but I did notice some differences in the placement of my trigger hand. Could that cause this type of grouping? I'm wondering if the step up from .223 to .260 is exposing some weaknesses in my bipod shooting skills. It just seems too consistent for me to believe its a mechanical issue with the rifle. Any experienced advice would be greatly appreciated.
Aside from my unorthodox methods, I did get out to shoot today and I shot a 10 shot group. The results are below and I would greatly appreciate some input from the more experienced shooters here ( if it wasn't already apparent I'm fairly new to LR shooting and this is my second LR rig). I am beginning to think that the issue may be me because the shot placement here was in random order. I made sure to keep my cheek on the rifle the entire time so I believe my cheek weld is consistent but I did notice some differences in the placement of my trigger hand. Could that cause this type of grouping? I'm wondering if the step up from .223 to .260 is exposing some weaknesses in my bipod shooting skills. It just seems too consistent for me to believe its a mechanical issue with the rifle. Any experienced advice would be greatly appreciated.
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BrentM
Well-Known Member
Well, I am leaning toward sight control might be an issue. It is possible you have a couple of issues. Sight control tends to show shifts in impact and mini groups as you have here. Cheek placement is only part of the equation with sight alignment being the primary goal. I have a small face so I have to run a cheek riser like the one shown here
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brant89
Well-Known Member
I suffer from the same issue so both of my rifles sport karsten adjustable cheek pieces with pads. Would you suggest developing my skills at this lower charge weight then finding a better load when my skills are better or trying to find my next accuracy node and then work on my form? Also, would it be best to work on my form at 100yds vs extended ranges? I feel like that would show me more of what I'm doing right or wrong without as much of an effect from wind and mirage. I didn't expect a light recoil like the .260 to make that much of a difference. My .223 shoots lights out regardless of pre-loading the bipod, hand position, etc.
brant89
Well-Known Member
Also, is that to say you think my trigger control and hand position are probably ok? I just want to know what I should focus on most.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
Well generally if a person can shoot 1 rifle well and recoil is not an issue then the rifle is not fitting you well probably. Personally I would not work on a light load, I would work on a solid load in the safe zone and work on load devlopment. If you want you can call me. 208 880 6885
brant89
Well-Known Member
I will probably take you up on that offer. Does anyone else have anything to add to the subject?
brant89
Well-Known Member
I'm using a Harris bipod with a sand bag for rear support. For consistency at the range I usually put a larger sand bad in front of the bipod feet to aid in pre-loading the bipod. I consistently shoot 1/2 MOA or less with my .223 with this setup. I also try to make sure the rear bag is packed pretty well beneath the stock to help reduce muzzle climb. I have noticed that this gun is more finicky about my body position.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
My buddy has this exact rifle with a Vortex Viper PST scope. I broke in the barrel and did most of the load development for it. He struggled with it, A LOT. We went to a friends range and I watched him shoot inconsistent groups, about 1 MOA at 200 yards, with loads I figured should be very good. I asked if I could take over for a bit and shot 3, 3 shot groups all at .3 MOA with that load. I don't like the HS stock and don't like the Vortex scope at full power. The eye relief is finicky and the stock grip is too bulky for me. His set up, regardless of who shoots it, needs a cheek riser and the scope turned down a couple of X's. After all that he too shoots good groups now.
What scope are you using? Can post a picture of your rig, side shot, and from behind like a shooter, and possible one of you lined up behind the rifle?
What scope are you using? Can post a picture of your rig, side shot, and from behind like a shooter, and possible one of you lined up behind the rifle?
brant89
Well-Known Member
I'm running the same scope on both rifles, Viper PST 6-24x50 and both rifles have the karsten cheek rest. My idea was to try to keep the rifles as similar as possible so fit and function would be nearly identical. So the only major differences between the two rifles are the stock and triggers. I thought I liked the swell on the HS stock but I am noticing that it is difficult to find a comfortable hand position. I think the LOP might be a little long for me too, but I don't think that you can removed the butt pads on those stocks to shorten them up. I'll try to get my wife to take a picture of me behind the rifle later tonight.
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BrentM
Well-Known Member
LOP could be an issue for sure.
Try resting your thumb on your trigger hand along the side of the grip, rather than grabbing it, and run some test fire excises. You can do this on the counter at the house or on the floor if shooting prone. Just sit at the table with both rifles in position and go back and forth if you wish. The most comfortable and least comfortable aspects will show up. If the LOP on the HS is an issue you can likely remove the pad and cut it down or cut the stock. Many cut the stock and install adjustable pads for future resale etc. If the LOP is an issue during thin clothing weather imagine what a pain it will be during hunting season.
Another thing to do is get into firing positon on the 260 with your eyes closed. Ensure the scope is on the higher power setting. Do not open your eyes until you are comfortable with your position. Pay attention to where you rest your cheek etc and ensure you are not strained in any manner. Then open your eyes and check your alignment , OVERALL, but especially to the scope. Do this with both rifles.
My assumption is that something is off regarding your fit to the 260. For example, it appears the scope is mounted more forward on the 260 then the 223, by a considerable amount.
Try resting your thumb on your trigger hand along the side of the grip, rather than grabbing it, and run some test fire excises. You can do this on the counter at the house or on the floor if shooting prone. Just sit at the table with both rifles in position and go back and forth if you wish. The most comfortable and least comfortable aspects will show up. If the LOP on the HS is an issue you can likely remove the pad and cut it down or cut the stock. Many cut the stock and install adjustable pads for future resale etc. If the LOP is an issue during thin clothing weather imagine what a pain it will be during hunting season.
Another thing to do is get into firing positon on the 260 with your eyes closed. Ensure the scope is on the higher power setting. Do not open your eyes until you are comfortable with your position. Pay attention to where you rest your cheek etc and ensure you are not strained in any manner. Then open your eyes and check your alignment , OVERALL, but especially to the scope. Do this with both rifles.
My assumption is that something is off regarding your fit to the 260. For example, it appears the scope is mounted more forward on the 260 then the 223, by a considerable amount.
