Velocity & Energy

[GetReel]

Forget bullet caliber, forget cartridge case capacity…. When you are looking to see how far your effective range is, what do you want your velocity and energy to be?
Let's talk velocity and energy on deer/elk.

I know cup/core bullets need different velocity than a mono bullet too.
So if you are looking at your dope chart (take weather and human error out of the equation), what numbers are you looking at to say, "This is my max effective range."

 

[Dmagna]

Depends on the bullet type, most monos will say a minimum of 1800fps at impact. Others might differ but whitetails are pretty easy to kill. But I try to have an impact of at least a minimum of 1200ft/lb for any big game.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Every bullet has it's own required velocity for expansion. So the answer to your question will vary with the bullet used. But expansion isn't your only concern. You will want enough velocity to achieve hydraulic tissue damage to put elk down quickly. For that, you need more speed than what is required for expansion.

 

[FEENIX]

Forget bullet caliber, forget cartridge case capacity…. When you are looking to see how far your effective range is, what do you want your velocity and energy to be?
Let's talk velocity and energy on deer/elk.

I know cup/core bullets need different velocity than a mono bullet too.
So if you are looking at your dope chart (take weather and human error out of the equation), what numbers are you looking at to say, "This is my max effective range."

My unwritten rule is >1500 FT-LBS (elk)/>1000 FT-LBS (deer) and >1800 FPS for the bullets I use at POI.

 

[unclecroc]

Most of the loads I use for big game hunting are terminally effective beyond my abilities to place them accurately at long distances.
That being said I usually stay within 450 yards comfortably in field conditions. That is my max effective range

 

[nksmfamjp]

1800 fps(or what the bullet requires) at poi.

Think about your truck. Do you care about horsepower and mpg when passing or how much gas is in the tank. You care about getting around the car!

 

[GetReel]

1800 fps(or what the bullet requires) at poi.

Think about your truck. Do you care about horsepower and mpg when passing or how much gas is in the tank. You care about getting around the car!

So you're saying that velocity is more important than energy?

 

[cabelasken]

I

Every bullet has it's own required velocity for expansion. So the answer to your question will vary with the bullet used. But expansion isn't your only concern. You will want enough velocity to achieve hydraulic tissue damage to put elk down quickly. For that, you need more speed than what is required for expansion.

I agree completely. That is why i like impact velocity to be above 2300 and limit my shots to where the cartridge is able to produce this , especially with mono's.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Every bullet has it's own required velocity for expansion. So the answer to your question will vary with the bullet used. But expansion isn't your only concern. You will want enough velocity to achieve hydraulic tissue damage to put elk down quickly. For that, you need more speed than what is required for expansion.

Agree with,.. ^^^^ THIS !
1,800 FPS might be a good Minimum ( Bullet dependent ), but I prefer,.. 2,000+ FPS, at Impact.
The .270 Wby's and .270 WSM's, can drive a 140 grain Berger, Classic Hunter around, 3,150- 3,200 FPS, Muzzle Velocity and at, 5,500- 6,000 Ft Elev., that Bullet, is still going OVER, 2,000 FPS at, 800 Yards !,.. I limit myself to, 700 Yards Max, on an Elk,... WIND,.. Dependent !
The Berg Classic Hunter, was the BEST .270 Bullet that, I've ever used, on Elk ( Complete Penetration, thru BOTH shoulders, on a Bull, at 115 yards ).
Upper Lungs,.."Scrambled" and, DRT ,...
My ole' .338 Win Mag W/ 210 grain Partition's, DIDN'T Kill Elk,.. any better !

 

[Longtine88]

So you're saying that velocity is more important than energy?

Would you shoot an elk at 50 yards with a 40 grain Vmax going 4,150 fps and carrying 1500 ft lbs?

Hell no. Effective range of a bullet comes down to the bullet and its physical construction characteristics. Which to me other variables can determine this. Effective range as in you the shooter, well that's another story and so is the correct caliber of each bullet cause it does make a difference. a 180 grain .338 bullet is gonna perform differently than a 180 grain .284 bullet.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Agree with,.. ^^^^ THIS !
1,800 FPS might be a good Minimum ( Bullet dependent ), but I prefer,.. 2,000+ FPS, at Impact.
The .270 Wby's and .270 WSM's, can drive a 140 grain Berger, Classic Hunter around, 3,150- 3,200 FPS, Muzzle Velocity and at, 5,500- 6,000 Ft Elev., that Bullet, is still going OVER, 2,000 FPS at, 800 Yards !,.. I limit myself to, 700 Yards Max, on an Elk,... WIND,.. Dependent !
The Berg Classic Hunter, was the BEST .270 Bullet that, I've ever used, on Elk ( Complete Penetration, thru BOTH shoulders, on a Bull, at 115 yards ).
Upper Lungs,.."Scrambled" and, DRT ,...
My ole' .338 Win Mag W/ 210 grain Partition's, DIDN'T Kill Elk,.. any better !

270 WSM is one of my favorite cartridges not just because of good trajectory but because it carries hydraulic damage into the animal in sufficient amount to shockwave it to a quicker death.

 

[GetReel]

Would you shoot an elk at 50 yards with a 40 grain Vmax going 4,150 fps and carrying 1500 ft lbs?

Hell no. Effective range of a bullet comes down to the bullet and its physical construction characteristics. Which to me other variables can determine this. Effective range as in you the shooter, well that's another story and so is the correct caliber of each bullet cause it does make a difference. a 180 grain .338 bullet is gonna perform differently than a 180 grain .284 bullet.

For the record, I didn't say velocity is solely more important, I was asking that member their thoughts based on their comment.

My main point of this was to get some feedback from people on what characteristics determined their max range with human error and weather variability out of the equation.
Sorry if it didn't come across like that.

 

[Longtine88]

For the record, I didn't say velocity is solely more important, I was asking that member their thoughts based on their comment.

My main point of this was to get some feedback from people on what characteristics determined their max range with human error and weather variability out of the equation.
Sorry if it didn't come across like that.

That being said, I go pretty much solely on energy that the bullet carries. With today's components and technology,(shooter out of the equation), if you can handle shooting a 300 grain bullet you can make some serious long shots all it would take is turning turrets and a steady hand (Enviroment not considered). I can shoot my 30 nosler with 245's out to 1500 yards and have the 1500 pounds of energy for a bull elk. I wouldn't hesitate either. The bullet's velocity doesn't go transonic until 2000 yards. That doesn't mean I would even consider past 1500 yards. Is it still effective on say a 150 deer, you bet, but I won't take the shot.

With all that said I would bet 98% of the hunters or shooters could not take a 1500 yard shot and maybe 85% couldn't make a 500 yard shot. I have a good friend that can make a 1000 yard shot on steel all day long.....give him a game animal to shoot at 500 yards and he can't hit it or if he does it's marginal. So lots and lots and lots of things to consider and variables that your post has taken out.

 

[Jon Bischof]

yeah, that's all true and everyone's field conditions and hunting rests are different. But I like having enough velocity on impact to have hydraulic shock. I would really like to know what is the minimum required velocity for good hydraulic shock with a good expanding bullet that doesn't lose too much mass to have full penetration.

As for being able to put a good hit on the critter under field conditions at longer distances, well, that is first of all basic marksmanship (which cannot be bought) and a subject of a different thread.