Utah Elk

rellison312

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
81
Location
Orange County, CA
I picked up an "Any Bull Elk - Rifle" permit since I wasn't lucky enough to win any of my other draws. Any insight on a guide or where to go will be helpful. I've never hunted elk in Utah and from what I am hearing this isn't the easiest tag to fill...

Any advice or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
RE
 
I've only hunted rifle spike units (the ones that are LE bull) and I've only done it late in the week but I think some generalities apply. I'm going to wait and buy a spike tag again because I have a cow tag on a spike/LE unit the week before my deer tag in the same place, but I'm going to hunt the same way. Getting off the roads by a half mile will greatly increase your odds, then learn what their behavior is going to be like post-rut. I heard Randy Newberg say the other day that in late October you need to hunt cows to kill bulls because they're not mating but they aren't breaking up yet. That's exactly what I've observed. last year I saw a herd of about 30 elk on a mountainside, the bull and several satellite bulls were loafing around in the sun and there were cows and spikes just moving like clock hands around them, plus pairs of cows living in a large area within earshot of them. There were other elk moving in small groups in and out of that sphere of influence too, spikes or large cows. Of course on opening day with tons of yahoos chasing them they're certainly going to be running off on their own, but in a low pressure environment that's what they want to do. I'd say scouting is important, but honestly common sense and e-scouting will get you pretty far. Just got to look at terrain and think about what types of spaces are going to meet their needs in different types of weather and then apply wind direction and what the humans are doing. In most cases the humans are going to be driving up and down the roads, bugling like Satchmo no more than 100 yards off the gravel. But a large enough number of hunters are going to be farther and deeper and faster that you'll have company no matter where you go, you have to decide how you're going to mitigate that.

The actual areas they can run to and escape to are not huge (in most cases), and the number of areas with public access combined with units that actually have elk in them all shrink your effective search area dramatically. Utah hunt planner is your best friend. They'll tell you how many elk are in a unit and what they behave like in general. For example I really like the San Rafael area so I got excited when I saw there was an elk unit there, because hey there's only about 75 trees and two springs on the entire unit, should be a piece of cake to find where they are. But then you read about it and the actual population is up to a few dozen a few weeks at a time and they want it to be zero, and it's liable to be a circular firing squad if they are on the unit. Some areas have elk in open spotting country but they will move ten miles without stopping on a whim, possibly into a secured bomb range nearby. The state is really good about publishing stuff like that, plus success rates, age class, etc. You can really prioritize what kind of hunt you want. If you want to glass near guzzlers in the desert and put miles on your truck instead of your knees you can do that. If you want to stalk the timber like they're whitetail you can do that, my buddy loves that method and he was an absolute slaughterer back in the 90's.

I pick an area that has reasonable security but isn't too much for me, one that I can get out of alone and one that's too far for the road hunters but too close for the guys less of a lardbutt than me. Then I have a plan tree in my head for weather, water, available feed, other hunters, my ability to extract, etc. Then I go in and see if they're in that area. To be totally vulnerable, I haven't sealed the deal yet but I have found the elk when I've looked this way. Utah has fewer elk than surrounding states but they are concentrated and they have predictable needs, it's just a matter of lining up your abilities, their needs, human behavior, and combining it with luck.

Bear in mind that hunters will basically hunt other hunters assuming they know more. Maybe this happens in other states but hunters actually shoot over other hunters who are closer to the running elk. Honestly, I didn't believe it til I saw it on film and met someone who's had it happen multiple times.

The elk are out there, and I think a lot get passed by every year because people tend to hunt certain ways in certain places during each season. I mean, that's normal, but I think it's extra normal in Utah. I hope this is helpful, I dislike the protectionist attitude of some hunters. Sure it's not like the old days but the biggest opportunity problem isn't other hunters or even drought. Sure there are more hunters but the vast majority of tags are going to hunters who have zero chance of taking a bull. The private land jitterbug is really intense here, and there's not a lot of elk ground to begin with. the state does a good job balancing trophy class with opportunity but in order to do that more and more units have to become LE to compensate for the transfer of the best lands into private hands and the non-official closing of public lands by syndicates of private neighbors.
 
I've only hunted rifle spike units (the ones that are LE bull) and I've only done it late in the week but I think some generalities apply. I'm going to wait and buy a spike tag again because I have a cow tag on a spike/LE unit the week before my deer tag in the same place, but I'm going to hunt the same way. Getting off the roads by a half mile will greatly increase your odds, then learn what their behavior is going to be like post-rut. I heard Randy Newberg say the other day that in late October you need to hunt cows to kill bulls because they're not mating but they aren't breaking up yet. That's exactly what I've observed. last year I saw a herd of about 30 elk on a mountainside, the bull and several satellite bulls were loafing around in the sun and there were cows and spikes just moving like clock hands around them, plus pairs of cows living in a large area within earshot of them. There were other elk moving in small groups in and out of that sphere of influence too, spikes or large cows. Of course on opening day with tons of yahoos chasing them they're certainly going to be running off on their own, but in a low pressure environment that's what they want to do. I'd say scouting is important, but honestly common sense and e-scouting will get you pretty far. Just got to look at terrain and think about what types of spaces are going to meet their needs in different types of weather and then apply wind direction and what the humans are doing. In most cases the humans are going to be driving up and down the roads, bugling like Satchmo no more than 100 yards off the gravel. But a large enough number of hunters are going to be farther and deeper and faster that you'll have company no matter where you go, you have to decide how you're going to mitigate that.

The actual areas they can run to and escape to are not huge (in most cases), and the number of areas with public access combined with units that actually have elk in them all shrink your effective search area dramatically. Utah hunt planner is your best friend. They'll tell you how many elk are in a unit and what they behave like in general. For example I really like the San Rafael area so I got excited when I saw there was an elk unit there, because hey there's only about 75 trees and two springs on the entire unit, should be a piece of cake to find where they are. But then you read about it and the actual population is up to a few dozen a few weeks at a time and they want it to be zero, and it's liable to be a circular firing squad if they are on the unit. Some areas have elk in open spotting country but they will move ten miles without stopping on a whim, possibly into a secured bomb range nearby. The state is really good about publishing stuff like that, plus success rates, age class, etc. You can really prioritize what kind of hunt you want. If you want to glass near guzzlers in the desert and put miles on your truck instead of your knees you can do that. If you want to stalk the timber like they're whitetail you can do that, my buddy loves that method and he was an absolute slaughterer back in the 90's.

I pick an area that has reasonable security but isn't too much for me, one that I can get out of alone and one that's too far for the road hunters but too close for the guys less of a lardbutt than me. Then I have a plan tree in my head for weather, water, available feed, other hunters, my ability to extract, etc. Then I go in and see if they're in that area. To be totally vulnerable, I haven't sealed the deal yet but I have found the elk when I've looked this way. Utah has fewer elk than surrounding states but they are concentrated and they have predictable needs, it's just a matter of lining up your abilities, their needs, human behavior, and combining it with luck.

Bear in mind that hunters will basically hunt other hunters assuming they know more. Maybe this happens in other states but hunters actually shoot over other hunters who are closer to the running elk. Honestly, I didn't believe it til I saw it on film and met someone who's had it happen multiple times.

The elk are out there, and I think a lot get passed by every year because people tend to hunt certain ways in certain places during each season. I mean, that's normal, but I think it's extra normal in Utah. I hope this is helpful, I dislike the protectionist attitude of some hunters. Sure it's not like the old days but the biggest opportunity problem isn't other hunters or even drought. Sure there are more hunters but the vast majority of tags are going to hunters who have zero chance of taking a bull. The private land jitterbug is really intense here, and there's not a lot of elk ground to begin with. the state does a good job balancing trophy class with opportunity but in order to do that more and more units have to become LE to compensate for the transfer of the best lands into private hands and the non-official closing of public lands by syndicates of private neighbors.
Great info JakeC. Much appreciated. Sounds like I have some work to do. At the end of the day it's an opportunity to explore some very special country with one of my favorite rifles. Success can be measured in many ways. Thanks.
 
Great info JakeC. Much appreciated. Sounds like I have some work to do. At the end of the day it's an opportunity to explore some very special country with one of my favorite rifles. Success can be measured in many ways. Thanks.
You're welcome, I mean, maybe you've hunted elk a lot before but I think people might get psyched out by the fact that it's Utah combined with the crowds when they encounter them. Other times I see folks ask experienced hunters for Utah elk advice and it's like well, they're still elk. It can definitely be a nice time.
 
You're welcome, I mean, maybe you've hunted elk a lot before but I think people might get psyched out by the fact that it's Utah combined with the crowds when they encounter them. Other times I see folks ask experienced hunters for Utah elk advice and it's like well, they're still elk. It can definitely be a nice time.
Great insight. I'm planning to pick up my first spike tag this year. I've hunted the Any bulls and have not had luck. Been to slow to shoot or bumped them. Let me know how your hunt goes!
 
Great insight. I'm planning to pick up my first spike tag this year. I've hunted the Any bulls and have not had luck. Been to slow to shoot or bumped them. Let me know how your hunt goes!
I'm not hearing good things, many people are saying most of these permits never result in a bull and I spoke to a few guides and they are all fully booked. I'm starting to wonder if I just made a donation to the state of Utah...
 
I'm not hearing good things, many people are saying most of these permits never result in a bull and I spoke to a few guides and they are all fully booked. I'm starting to wonder if I just made a donation to the state of Utah...
They're tough hunts. Less then 20% overall success. I find that getting 1-2.5 miles in is best.

Your deep enough to avoid roads, but shallow enough to avoid horseback and outfitters. Plus if you get to far you may never get meat back out. A 3 mile trek may take you 4-5 hours depending on your abilities and terrain. Do that 2-3x and your talking multiple days. Bear, coyotes, and all other prey get after that meat while your gone.

That being said, many locals have honey holes and I know a lot of guy pick up the extra cow depredation tag if theh can afford it.
 
They're tough hunts. Less then 20% overall success. I find that getting 1-2.5 miles in is best.

Your deep enough to avoid roads, but shallow enough to avoid horseback and outfitters. Plus if you get to far you may never get meat back out. A 3 mile trek may take you 4-5 hours depending on your abilities and terrain. Do that 2-3x and your talking multiple days. Bear, coyotes, and all other prey get after that meat while your gone.

That being said, many locals have honey holes and I know a lot of guy pick up the extra cow depredation tag if theh can afford it.
Exactly, away from the roads but not so far in to run into the packers, and not so far you can't get it out. If you have local contacts there's lots of people who will take time off to make a meat trip with a guy, but that's a slim chance.

I'm not hearing good things, many people are saying most of these permits never result in a bull and I spoke to a few guides and they are all fully booked. I'm starting to wonder if I just made a donation to the state of Utah...

20 percent overall success is true like the gentleman said, but I need to reiterate that a vast number of tags go to residents who have no intention of getting a half mile from the truck until something is spotted. A lot more tags get used in really low density units that are open and have better terrain and weather. 5 or 6 people will go out as a team with the intention of hitting one area together hoping to get one or 2. An entire family will get tags and they'll go out only opening weekend and just drive around. For every hundred of these groups a few will get bulls, because the bulls have to be somewhere. But I wish there was a way to quantify success rate for higher effort hunters. I ran into one group who had a cow tag, two spike tags, and a buck deer tag on a LE bull unit and they had filled NONE of them in a week. I gave them an exact location of two cows .6 miles away and a trail the deer were using to move up and down the drainage and they were like NOPE and drove away.

That's not to say it's NOT tough, it is, but the success rate is skewed a little by ambition level. You certainly did just subsidize my hunt but I wouldn't call it a donation just yet. I wish we'd had this chat a month ago I'd have told you to wait for the spike tag and come with me to my cow unit. That's another thing, lots of people will also not chase spikes. They'd rather hold out years for a hoss. I get it, but those antlers really only need to be 5 inches. It's not the dream but it's real success. So lots of folks won't chase anything that isn't bugling. That's why I think a lot of adult elk get walked by every year. I mean it is a tough hunt but regular hunters get adult bulls every year. And there's no waiting period for coming, shooting a little raghorn, and learning a unit for next year.
 
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Randy I thought your name was familiar, I just remembered I bought my saum brass from you a while back, lol. I was annealing it the other day thinking about how you had your kids help count it all out. Still appreciate that, that gun is working great for me and I don't have to worry about brass for the life of this barrel.
 
Very tough hunt, like the other guys said. I'm a resident, and haven't bought a OTC Elk tag since 2011, back then you could just buy it the day before lol. Now you have to wait in line, either in person, or online just to get a tag. Got a nice Bull that last time though, so you never know!
 

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Randy I thought your name was familiar, I just remembered I bought my saum brass from you a while back, lol. I was annealing it the other day thinking about how you had your kids help count it all out. Still appreciate that, that gun is working great for me and I don't have to worry about brass for the life of this barrel.
Haha! Nice. I haven't been able to shoot my SAUM in a while as ammo is near impossible to get. Hope your putting that barss to good use. I recently had a 300 wby built that has been great to shoot. It's what I plan to hunt elk with.

I wish I spoke to you a month ago before I bought this permit. I was just desperate to get a hunt on the calendar!
 
Very tough hunt, like the other guys said. I'm a resident, and haven't bought a OTC Elk tag since 2011, back then you could just buy it the day before lol. Now you have to wait in line, either in person, or online just to get a tag. Got a nice Bull that last time though, so you never know!
Nice, I would take that!
 
Haha! Nice. I haven't been able to shoot my SAUM in a while as ammo is near impossible to get. Hope your putting that barss to good use. I recently had a 300 wby built that has been great to shoot. It's what I plan to hunt elk with.

I wish I spoke to you a month ago before I bought this permit. I was just desperate to get a hunt on the calendar!
I understand, haha, I took a 1960's stickbow after elk last year due to the same thing. But I actually passed shots up, so anything really is possible.

yeah the saum now has three good tags for this year and now has three smoking loads for it. It didn't quite seal the deal on a small spike last year but that was my inexperience. I haven't actually shot it past 200 because I fell into archery last year and took a year off except that spike hunt. That's why the elk lived on at 400.

Your odds really are better with the any bull units, son't feel too bad. Better opportunities to meet folks and hang out too. I gotta go make dinner but PM me so i remember to share what I can about the units.
 
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