Using Blue Dot in 221 Fireball

[G Arlen Good]

Anyone have any problems with Alliant Blue Dot in 221 Fireball loads ...specifically 50, 52, & 53 gr bullets?
I have not but I've been reading some comments about pressure spikes.
Just curious.

 

[Greatgrandad]

While I haven't run it in the 221, for decades, I've run it in the 222 and 223 for high volume, shorter range loads with mostly 40gr varieties.

 

[Mike Matteson]

If I could just find some blue dot would be great. I use it in my shotgun loads almost totally.

 

[G Arlen Good]

I've been using it in 221 Fireball loads, Hornady 50 gr, since 1982. Over the last decade or so, stories keep popping up about "safety issues" with Blue Dot... temperature sensitivity, pressure spikes in bottleneck cartridges, pressure spikes at low temperature... things like that.
I know it's not the best powder to use in the 221 FB but I use it and so thought I'd just ask around.
Thought it might be a good conversation starter, too.

Best regards

 

[Greatgrandad]

I've been using it in 221 Fireball loads, Hornady 50 gr, since 1982. Over the last decade or so, stories keep popping up about "safety issues" with Blue Dot... temperature sensitivity, pressure spikes in bottleneck cartridges, pressure spikes at low temperature... things like that.
I know it's not the best powder to use in the 221 FB but I use it and so thought I'd just ask around.
Thought it might be a good conversation starter, too.

Best regards

I haven't experienced those issues yet in my rifle loads, but as I am sure you know, there have been changes in the more modern Blue Dot vs much of the older. I know in some of my pistol/revolver loads I had to change loads when using the newer powders vs my old load data with the newer being a little faster burning. Some of the handgun Blue Dot loads that are in my older manuals are completely removed in the newer, and if one uses the old recipes at or near the top, over-pressures can occur.

Alliant Powder - Safety Notice

www.alliantpowder.com

 

[G Arlen Good]

Thanks for the link, GGD. I was aware of the 125 gr, 357 Magnum issue... just wish they could explain it. Sometimes I think the Universe is giving me a hint about something, so maybe I'll stop using Blue Dot in my 221 FB.
- "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." -

As a side note in regards to your comment about older powders, I have an unopened can of IMR 4198 that I bought in 1981. I plan on comparing it's properties with a new batch. I hope it's still good. Maybe this coming winter.

 

[Greatgrandad]

Thanks for the link, GGD. I was aware of the 125 gr, 357 Magnum issue... just wish they could explain it. Sometimes I think the Universe is giving me a hint about something, so maybe I'll stop using Blue Dot in my 221 FB.
- "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." -

As a side note in regards to your comment about older powders, I have an unopened can of IMR 4198 that I bought in 1981. I plan on comparing it's properties with a new batch. I hope it's still good. Maybe this coming winter.

I have a few pounds of various powders that old an a couple older, and they still work. Actually, I've only had one plastic jar of powder ever go bad, and it was about 1/2 pound of AA 3100 at about 15 years old. Not sure why, but when opened, it was very acidic smelling and turned into a large clump.

 

[G Arlen Good]

I have gently shaken my can (metal can) of IMR 4198 and it sounds lump free. I bought it long ago and then deployed overseas. I put it in storage and after returning thought I would see how it might compare with newer stuff. I just never got around to run comparison loads.

 

[TigerOnThe Hill]

Thanks for the link, GGD. I was aware of the 125 gr, 357 Magnum issue... just wish they could explain it. Sometimes I think the Universe is giving me a hint about something, so maybe I'll stop using Blue Dot in my 221 FB.
- "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." -

As a side note in regards to your comment about older powders, I have an unopened can of IMR 4198 that I bought in 1981. I plan on comparing it's properties with a new batch. I hope it's still good. Maybe this coming winter.

In >40 years of handloaiding, I've had 2 cans go bad. One was an old metal can of IMR 4320 that became rusty on the inside. I also had a plastic 2# jug of Vihtavuori N130 or N1333 go bad. I had not used it for many years and when I opened it up there was a very strong acid smell and the powder had small clumps. When I inspected the jug, I notied the top was not tight (back then they used a plastic flip top and it didn't line up well the last time I closed it) and a small hole in a corner.

I have a lot of experience shooting the 221 Fireball, but I never loaded it w/ Blue Dot. Full power loads are so gentle i've never wanted to try BD reduced loads. I use 40 gr bullets in all my Fireball loads. I did use BD for reduced recoil loads and 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips nearly 20 years ago when my son started deer hunting. IIRC, the loads ran about 2350-2450 fps and worked well on whitetail deer.

 

[G Arlen Good]

Tiger...thanks for your comments and for sharing your experiences. I've never had a can of powder go bad but I don't generally keep them very long. The can of IMR 4198 is an exception ...and an experiment.
I first used Blue Dot in a 221 Fireball load in 1981. I was stationed at Ft. Devens, Massachusetts and got a Thompson Contender with three different barrel... one being the 221 FB. I used it to kill ground hogs on some farms in the area. It had a mild report and the farmers liked that.
Back then, before my ballistic maturity peaked, I was interested in the fastest bullet and so I was using Blue Dot. As you are aware, we didn't have a large selection of powders back then, so I must had a good reason to try it.
Recently, I was using Blue Dot without much thought... until I started seeing anecdotal evidence of pressure problems. So, I don't know if Blue Dot is the gluten of modern reloading or just the victim of rumors.
But out of curiosity, I asked for some opinions. Really, I can't beat IMR 4198 for my needs.

Best regards

 

[Gascot78]

Blue Dot can be used in .221 Fireball. And yes, you are right to be worried about pressure spikes. I had one. It was not fun.

 

[G Arlen Good]

Blue Dot can be used in .221 Fireball. And yes, you are right to be worried about pressure spikes. I had one. It was not fun.

That doesn't sound good. Please explain. Bullet weight, charge weight, station temperature... anything else that you can remember. And, what happened?!

 

[VinceMule]

Blue dot loads are NOT low pressure loads.

I shot 40s, start at 10.0g and work up in .2g increments. Find max pressure for your outfit, and back off .5g.

IMPORTANT TO USE THICK CUP PRIMERS WITH BLUE DOT! CCI 41, 71/2, CCI BR-4. AVOID THE CCI 450S AS IT WILL SPIKE PRESSURES.

I fear that most will confuse pressure spikes with powder bridging in the powder measure. These large flake powders will bridge in the powder measure, one charge will be light, the next will be an over load. So, when using blue dot, I weigh EVERY charge....every single powder charge.

IN the 221 FB, I shot the 40s at 3000. In the 223, I shot the 40s at 3200, which gave me 1.5" groups at 200, plenty accurate for minute of squirrel. The accuracy node and max pressure with blue dot with 55's is at 2600, and trajectory was like a 45/70 at 200. So, I stuck with the 40s.

I did kill some close range coyotes/cats with the 55g Sierra lead tip blitz at 2600, which is better than a 22 Hornet. However, the 40g Nosler ballistic tip at 3200 proved to be an excellent coyote killing load.

Again, watch the powder bridging, weigh every single blue dot load, if you don't, you are in trouble, you just have not found it out, yet.

 

[ARlife4me]

is the powder from newer stock or older purchase(s). i haven't seem blue dot available anywhere in almost 5-10 years (probably closer to 5-7). i haven't used that powder for sg loads as i don't reload for sg's. i do use it in 357sig though and a couple of other pistol cartridges.