wideopenyamaha
Member
Lots of great info and videos. Wish i saw this before i got my remage barrel on my la 700 wouldnt hurt to true but probably cant do anything without changing the threads for the barrel now
Truing an action.
- Thread starter J E Custom
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Indian7953
Well-Known Member
Indian7953
Well-Known Member
Has anyone had any experience with midways tools to true and action?
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
Don't recall his name, but there's a feller out there who massages the action and bolt body such that with the bolt unlocked it has plenty of operational clearance, but as the bolt is rotated into battery it cams itself into place and all of that operational clearance is removed. IF (big word there) this was the situation with lapping the lugs with the trigger et. al. still in place then I don't see a problem with doing so.
Seems to me that the most ideal situation is lap the lugs with the bolt in the condition that it would be in just prior to detonation. Clearly it would be additionally beneficial if the bolt face was perpendicular to the bore axis during this period.
I have some of Midway's action tools for work on Savages. I did not buy anything to face the front of the action as I do not believe that such a tool can reliably be perpendicular to the action's CL.
Seems to me that the most ideal situation is lap the lugs with the bolt in the condition that it would be in just prior to detonation. Clearly it would be additionally beneficial if the bolt face was perpendicular to the bore axis during this period.
I have some of Midway's action tools for work on Savages. I did not buy anything to face the front of the action as I do not believe that such a tool can reliably be perpendicular to the action's CL.
I was thinking you'd want it in the same position it would be in when the forces are placed on the lugs??? Aka, trigger pulled, firing pin forces transmitted to primer and all forces going from case back into the bolt face and into lugs. Just thinking out loud.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
That is true, too. Best if it doesn't move into that position, but is already there.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
That would be one way. The other is a bolt that fits tight while in battery.
Agreed. As I stated above, I would think a case sized just so the bolt will close with a bit of force would be the best route on a 700 action. I believe JE started a post about "proper" case sizing not too long ago.
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
I think that a one piece bolt should fit tight in battery on an empty chamber, but when not in battery have enough clearance to run smooth and be tolerant of grit. I see a tight fitting case forcing the bolt to be in some certain place as a variable that we don't want. We're asking the case to do something it's really not intended to do. If the bolt is already only able to be in one place while in battery, and then we use a tight fitting case, well that's a different thing entirely.
My thinking on this is based on my experience in designing job specific high volume production machine tools rather than specifically firearms experience. The tool (rifle) always guides/clamps/aligns the work (case), the work (case) never, ever guides/clamps/aligns the tool (rifle).
My thinking on this is based on my experience in designing job specific high volume production machine tools rather than specifically firearms experience. The tool (rifle) always guides/clamps/aligns the work (case), the work (case) never, ever guides/clamps/aligns the tool (rifle).
SimonT
Member
Like Borden bumps?
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
That could very well be the guy.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Read the new post and decided to add a few comments.
There are all kinds of theories about what should and should not be done when truing an action, so I use the common sense rule.
Why do we true actions ? Answer = To bring everything into alignment with the bore centerline.
Why align everything ? Answer to prevent any movement during firing Pressure.
What does lack of movement do for the performance of a cartridge ? Answer = It makes the cartridge consistent shot to shot and extends case life. It also aligns the sear and case head so uneven stress and wear doesn't distort the surfaces of ether.
So if the squareness and alignment is as good as we can get with no outside interference's from ejectors, triggers, sloppy sizing, poor concentricity of the ammo as loaded. when the round does go off, all cartridges will react the same every time and better accuracy will be obtained.
If there is any misalignment, when the round fires and the chamber reaches the highest pressure,
It will ether distort the case because of misalignment, or move off the bore centerline. And because of these out side forces that were applied during action truing, any misalignment/ movement will be applied during firing Effecting everything.
If it is aligned before firing due to ejectors, triggers,out of square bolt faces or any other external forces, the pressure will force it into misaligned state if it is allowed to, so we true everything in the position we want when/during firing and under pressure.
J E CUSTOM
There are all kinds of theories about what should and should not be done when truing an action, so I use the common sense rule.
Why do we true actions ? Answer = To bring everything into alignment with the bore centerline.
Why align everything ? Answer to prevent any movement during firing Pressure.
What does lack of movement do for the performance of a cartridge ? Answer = It makes the cartridge consistent shot to shot and extends case life. It also aligns the sear and case head so uneven stress and wear doesn't distort the surfaces of ether.
So if the squareness and alignment is as good as we can get with no outside interference's from ejectors, triggers, sloppy sizing, poor concentricity of the ammo as loaded. when the round does go off, all cartridges will react the same every time and better accuracy will be obtained.
If there is any misalignment, when the round fires and the chamber reaches the highest pressure,
It will ether distort the case because of misalignment, or move off the bore centerline. And because of these out side forces that were applied during action truing, any misalignment/ movement will be applied during firing Effecting everything.
If it is aligned before firing due to ejectors, triggers,out of square bolt faces or any other external forces, the pressure will force it into misaligned state if it is allowed to, so we true everything in the position we want when/during firing and under pressure.
J E CUSTOM
ntsqd
Well-Known Member
To my way of thinking we want everything in alignment regardless of any external forces that may or may not be applied. In example, the alignment of the bolt face should not be affected by whether the firing pin is fully forwards, fully back, or somewhere in between. If we allow external forces to shift anything then we have a variable that may or may not be consistent in how it behaves from shot to shot. Better to remove that variable altogether.
