Too much powder...

[Shooter00]

So I'm not sure what I'm missing. Working on a load for my .300 WSM using Barnes TTSX 180gr bullets, RL 19 in new Win brass FL sized and trimmed. Pulled the load data off Barnes' website, max load shows to be 69.5. I reduced to 69.0 to start with, planning to step down half a grain at a time from there. I'm seating the bullet .02" off the lands for this batch. My COAL 2.930, and I used a Redding comp seating die and seat with a crimp to get a bite into the band's on the TSX bullet. I didn't see a note that this a compressed load in the manual, and it shows that this was the most accurate load of all the powders listed. Problem is that it won't seat all the way even with half a grain less than the published max load. I'm well into the lands, so much that when I tried to open the bolt, the bullet stayed in the bore, case extracted and my wife yelled at me for spraying powder all over the folded laundry.

How come things aren't jiving with the published data? And what's the best guess on over pressure if I do stay with it stretched out so much? Safe to shoot? I've heard of great results with RL19 in the 300 WSM, and I'd love to keep it cooking over 3000 fps just to ensure good expansion as far out as possible.

Rifle is a new FN TSR XP, 300 WSM with about 75 +/- through it. (Win model 70 action)

Thanks! 00

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I'm really pondering on why anyone would drop 1/2 grain down from max. and hope for the best. You may get lucky for a while but eventually you'll see a combo that'll stick your bolt or worse.
As to powder compression you'd have seen that one coming too if you had started at minimum charges instead of a half grain off the wall. You may have to use a drop tube to get the powder into the case; barnes pills are so **** long I actually had to go to I4320 in my 375 with 300 grain tsx as I4350 wouldn't fit and was bulging brass a bit for the higher charges.
Barnes is probably also using fired brass in the book loads which has a bit more capacity than your new brass has.
As to getting the bullet stuck in the rifling, barnes bullets need some run to engage the rifling without a pressure spike, so get it back .030" or more. You can't hunt with a round you can't pull from the chamber anyway.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Berger has some interesting reading on their website concerning 'jump' and it's relationship to powder charge. Worth reading IMO.

Not sure I agree with their findings but a good read nonetheless.

 

[RT2506]

Your throat probably is shorter than the one Barns used in their work up.
As is always suggested in loading data start a the low powder charges and work up not start at the top and work down. I have seen powder charges a grain and a half from the max blow primers. Every chamber is different.

 

[Shooter00]

Your throat probably is shorter than the one Barns used in their work up.
As is always suggested in loading data start a the low powder charges and work up not start at the top and work down. I have seen powder charges a grain and a half from the max blow primers. Every chamber is different.

The rifle has nothing to do with it. I neglected to mention in my original question that the Barnes data calls for a COAL of 2.825 on this load. My COAL needs to be 2.930 to be .02" off the lands, but with all of that powder, I can only seat 2.945 which obviously isn't going to work. It doesn't fit and I'm wondering what Barnes did different.

I'm really pondering on why anyone would drop 1/2 grain down from max. and hope for the best. You may get lucky for a while but eventually you'll see a combo that'll stick your bolt or worse.
As to powder compression you'd have seen that one coming too if you had started at minimum charges instead of a half grain off the wall. You may have to use a drop tube to get the powder into the case; barnes pills are so **** long I actually had to go to I4320 in my 375 with 300 grain tsx as I4350 wouldn't fit and was bulging brass a bit for the higher charges.
Barnes is probably also using fired brass in the book loads which has a bit more capacity than your new brass has.
As to getting the bullet stuck in the rifling, barnes bullets need some run to engage the rifling without a pressure spike, so get it back .030" or more. You can't hunt with a round you can't pull from the chamber anyway.

So I'm not a hack reloader, and I guess I didn't explain my method on this go round. I was merely putting powder in the cases starting from the high end and working down because that required the smallest adjustment on my powder measurer from what I had been running through previously. I was planning on throwing charges every half grain to cover the spread of the PUBLISHED data, not to exceed half a grain below the max. I had a feeling that I wouldn't have enough room for what the Barnes data was calling for on the high end, so as soon as I saw the issue, I stopped and made an effort to see what might be wrong.

So Lefty, regarding my original question and not how you perceive my reloading methods; why does the Barnes data call for something that doesn't fit when all put together? And where exactly does significant volume magically appear from in a fired case?

I guess I should just email Ty at Barnes and not waste my time on opinions.

 

[varmintH8R]

I looked at the Barnes data and it looks like it is for a 180TSX. In my experience the TTSX is longer. Maybe this is part of the issue?

 

[Shooter00]

I looked at the Barnes data and it looks like it is for a 180TSX. In my experience the TTSX is longer. Maybe this is part of the issue?

Great catch! Just looked it up, TTSX is 1.48"; TSX is 1.389" - 0.11" longer looks to be my problem.

That's what I was missing...I appreciate it. Back to the bench!!!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The rifle has nothing to do with it. I neglected to mention in my original question that the Barnes data calls for a COAL of 2.825 on this load. My COAL needs to be 2.930 to be .02" off the lands, but with all of that powder, I can only seat 2.945 which obviously isn't going to work. It doesn't fit and I'm wondering what Barnes did different.



So I'm not a hack reloader, and I guess I didn't explain my method on this go round. I was merely putting powder in the cases starting from the high end and working down because that required the smallest adjustment on my powder measurer from what I had been running through previously. I was planning on throwing charges every half grain to cover the spread of the PUBLISHED data, not to exceed half a grain below the max. I had a feeling that I wouldn't have enough room for what the Barnes data was calling for on the high end, so as soon as I saw the issue, I stopped and made an effort to see what might be wrong.

So Lefty, regarding my original question and not how you perceive my reloading methods; why does the Barnes data call for something that doesn't fit when all put together? And where exactly does significant volume magically appear from in a fired case?

I guess I should just email Ty at Barnes and not waste my time on opinions.

Explain yourself better next time... you sounded like you were basically load shopping and not working up your load. If you want input expect to get it based on your questions, not what's in your head. I stopped trying to read minds when I got married.


I've seen the load not fitting with the 300 win long too when using new brass using "book" loads. Powder density variations between lots and case capacity differences between brands has some to do with it too. I simply drop my charge 'till it fits or go to another powder. Most of the time I simply use a bigger round if I'm that worried about the last 50 fps that another grain or two would net me and let the rifle loaf a bit instead.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Explain yourself better next time... you sounded like you were basically load shopping and not working up your load. If you want input expect to get it based on your questions, not what's in your head. I stopped trying to read minds when I got married.


I've seen the load not fitting with the 300 win long too when using new brass using "book" loads. Powder density variations between lots and case capacity differences between brands has some to do with it too. I simply drop my charge 'till it fits or go to another powder. Most of the time I simply use a bigger round if I'm that worried about the last 50 fps that another grain or two would net me and let the rifle loaf a bit instead.

Thats where I screwed up. Must be why it took me 4 times to get it right. The first 3 I second guessed all the time. This one, I just go with the flow........

After 3 'shafts with no elevator', I'm suprised I have what I have materially.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Thats where I screwed up. Must be why it took me 4 times to get it right. The first 3 I second guessed all the time. This one, I just go with the flow........

After 3 'shafts with no elevator', I'm suprised I have what I have materially.

I gave up while we were still dating.... no fights and a good relationship 11 years and change later.
To the o.p., sorry if I sounded a bit harsh but we've seen a lot of guys load shopping here on the forum (especially the 7rem guys for some reason) and going for the heaviest charges right away. I've seen a couple of guns get jambed bad or busted up with either factories or rather normal handloads and the pucker factor goes up exponentially when I hear someone starting with the top load.