Some explination please!!!

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by liltank, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Can somebody explain to me the necessity of the 338 Edge if the 338 RUM is essentially running the same numbers? And why is the Edge necessary if you can get the same speeds with the Lapua (actually better with the same loads)? I understand the 338 Norma because it is developed for short barrels (22" to 26") but why the Edge? Sorry Shawn, not knocking your dream child. I think it is a cool idea, but some explanation please. I'm failing to see the benefits of this caliber. Please be kind, just thirsting for knowledge.

    Tank
     
  2. SavageShtr

    SavageShtr Well-Known Member

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    The edge is probably capable of higher speeds compared to the rum or lapua, but shoot better with the pet loads that Shawn has developed. I do believe the guys that are shooting the edge are also using shorter barrels of around 28-30 inches. Not the 20 pound + monsters some of use are using. That is just my opinion, I'm shure others will chime in with there thaughts on the issue.
     
  3. Russ M

    Russ M Well-Known Member

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    i don't have one and i am not an authority but from what i could tell the edge has a little bit more case capacity over the rum so you can squeeze a little bit more velocity about 100fps, the edge can be built off of a Remington action were as the laupa is a little big for it, also then you can say you have something unique that is not readily available. pleas correct me if i am wrong
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Tank . I think the Edge was developed before the 338 RUM was brought out by Remington
    and proved its worth as a 338.

    Remington came out with the 338 RUM because of all the demands for a 338 and later even
    came out with the 338 Lapua for the same reason.

    As to the 338 Edge; It has slightly more powder capacity that allows the use of slower powder
    with "BIG" bullets if used in an extended mag. If you place a 338 RUM in a extended mag you
    can seat the bullet longer and gain almost the same powder capacity.

    The Lapua has slightly less powder capacity but can be loaded harder because of the fine
    brass and still hold up.

    The only down side to the Edge would be the slight neck thinning if the 300 RUM brass is
    used but the 375 RUM is the same dimension and if necked down the necks are thicker.

    Also the Edge is a wildcat and factory ammo cannot be bought.

    All of the big 338s can be very accurate and I see no advantage in one over the other under
    equal conditions ,Just ones preference.

    This is my take on it and I hope it helped.

    J E CUSTOM
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  5. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense then if the edge was developed before the RUM. I also like the action size theory.

    Thanks,
    Tank
     
  6. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    JE is pretty much right on. When the 300 ultramag case came out 338 nuts immediately saw the benefit of necking this case to 338 and duplicating 338 Lapua velocities on a standard magnum action. Wow, the landslide began. Now anybody could convert there standard magnum action to the 338-300 ultramag and hit 338 lapua velocities without the expense of the big Lapua bolt face action. Life was good. Then everyone found out what a shooter it was. If there was ever a natural this one was it. Low velocity spreads, extreme accurracy, it just did everything well and put anybody with a magnum action inexpensively into a big time 338 with just a rebarrel job. This was the beauty of the 338-300 ultramag. I started building them within weeks of remington introducing the specs on the 300 because I had been looking for a standard case like this to wildcat in 338 for years. I had been working with the relatively new Lapua case and improving it but again you had to have a spare wby mk5 action lying around or buy a custom making the ultramag case very attractive. By the turn of the century I had done over a hundred of them and every one of them just shot lights out. But then in about 2002 remington introduced the 338 ultramag which does the same thing and feeds through a standard magnum action better. I ran it through the ringer and it was also a shooter with about the same performance so I just saw no need in wildcatting the 338-300 after that. I hope Shawn sells a million of them this year and wish him nothing but the best because I guarantee no shooter would be unhappy with his edge.
     
  7. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I like the benefits of the 338 Norma. I like the fact you can use 10 less grains of powder to achieve 2750 fps out of a 24 to 26" barrel. Can the RUM match this or is the Norma Mag in a league of its own?

    Tank
     
  8. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I am not familiar with the 338 Norma. How many grains of what powder to get 2750 fps with what bullet? The 338 and 338-300 ultramags need in the low 90's to get 2750 fps with the 300 smk in a 26" barrel. It helps if it is a fast 26" barrel. I load 110 grains in my 338-378 to get 3000 fps with the 300 smk. If it gets 2750 fps with the 300 with a charge in the low 80's in a 26" barrel then I like it. My wife said I needed another rifle.
     
  9. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    338 Norma 26" barrel 1:9.3x
    300gr SMK COAL @ 3.602
    92.5gr Retumbo= 2730fps
    93gr Retumbo= 2750fps
    When Vithavouri 570 is available that should yield 2800fps in a 26"
     
  10. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I would caution anyone not to believe everything the factory claims because it is a simple law
    of physics that it takes pressure and time to get velocity and if the norma if doing the same
    velocity with 10 grains less powder in the same length barrel it has to be a faster burning
    powder that produces the same pressure in the same length barrel or it is loaded to higher
    pressures like a lot of the newer cartriges and with proprietary powders that can't be
    purchased by the re-loader.

    Like LTLR I don't have any experience with the "New" 338 by Norma but there is no free ride
    But if you like the norma It should do as well as everything in it's class.

    Like everything else there is always something bigger and faster but there is a price to pay
    like the 338/378 Weatherby It will push a 300 gr bullet over 2800 ft/sec with out excessive
    pressure but it takes 115 to 125 grs of powder.

    Just my 2 cent's

    J E CUSTOM
     
  11. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I did some research to see what this thing is. Basically a shortenned 338 lapua improved. I can see some advantages to it. When the 338 lapua came out several of us around the country were in continuous contact trying various improvements to try and get 338-378 wby velocities out of it in a more efficient case. That long sloping case was perfect for improving and reminded us of the old 375 H&H case that became the basis for about every magnum out there. None of us could quite get 338-378 velocities out of it but were close and found that it offered several benefits over the 338-378. One of those was that it shined with winchester WMR powder. It is basically a ball type H-4831. A much faster powder than most big 338's needed. This allowed us to build 338 lapua imp's on a 26" barrel and keep the weight under 10 pounds scoped out while retaining top velocity virtually equal to the other big 338's that needed 30" barrels and a lot of slow moving powder. Now we had a light carry gun capable of putting a whomping on big elk at extreme ranges.

    With that in mind I think the 338 Norma will react the same way and could possibly become the best big 338 out there to build a light carry gun with a 26" barrel capable of extreme long range. I think it could be similar to the 338 ultramag vs the 338-300 ultramag in the fact that with the slightly shorter 338 ultramag case the powder capacity and velocity with the 300 smk is virtually identical to the 338-300 ultramag because you can load the bullet further out in the 338 ultramag with the same length magazine. I bet the 338 norma would be similar to the 338 lapua because of this. Like I said, I have never fired one and am purely speculating using things I learned with similar cartridges. But I think that short fat case will shine with a faster burning powder creating what I am looking for which is the best big 338 in a 26" barrel under 10 pounds ready to hunt. I think it is worth a try and I am going to do one when I get my house finished. The lathe is already in the garage but my wife said I can't use it until I finish the house.
     
  12. SavageShtr

    SavageShtr Well-Known Member

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    LTLR I was thinking the the same thing as you. I allready have a long heavy barreled Lapua I'm thinking of building a short barreled Norma to carry in the woods for long shots to short and anything inbetween.
     
  13. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    "This cartridge has some amazing traits that I had never experienced before; one of which was that it is very forgiving. Whether my powder charge was 83 grains of R22 or 85, it was difficult to shoot out of a hole. The powder charge utilized above is 84.5 grains of R22 with a chronographed velocity of 2780 fps and a validated velocity of 2770 fps. The extreme velocity spread is… (You won’t believe this) three feet per second..." (338 Norma Review By Ward W. Brien)

    This is a quote from the article that was posted here a while ago. This is the very reason that it has sparked an interest. Granted I am coming to not like Reloader powders, but I think this can be duplicated with another powder and or improved. But with this statement, improvement isn't needed. I have run the numbers through JBM and they put you at 1300yrds with 1500fps and 1500ft. lbs. of energy 39.4 MOA (Conditions conducive to where we hunt. 59degrees, 1000ft elevation, 78% Humidity, 28.85 Baro) . This is suppose to be achievable with a 24" to 26" barrel. In the discussion it was quoted by the author that a 23.5" barrel was optimal. He also said that after 28"s speed starts to scrub off. Now I am not sure, but that may be fixed with a better powder, but again, I like what I am seeing. Replacing the RL22 with a less temp sensitive powder would be the ticket.

    Tank