Side Arm for Grizzly Country

[Pdvdh]

Agreed!

It was only a matter of time. At least we're 100% consistent.
Do you agree with the factual parts, the fabricated parts, or both?

 

[DirectDrive]

It's a lot of hot air with a few facts sprinkled in .
Is the bear going to eat you or are you going to be able to kill the bear ?
Are you going to let fear overcome you like Florida Man (see Mark Uptain tragedy) and run away ?

Guide Phil (see earlier posts) stood in the pocket and delivered accurate fire on a charging Grizzly with a 9mm and won.
That took some stones.

We get caught up with hardware in these bear defense threads.
And you do need decent hardware.
But is your brain up to it ?
Will your brain help you win or will it make you freeze/run away ?

 

[FEENIX]

It was only a matter of time. At least we're 100% consistent.
Do you agree with the factual parts, the fabricated parts, or both?

It is up to the individual to synthesize what information is being presented. At the end of the day, people will make their own decision about what is best for their "actual" application, regardless of what you and I think is fabricated or factual. You know what is best for your situation, as I do mine. It boils down to personal choice and that's the beauty of it.

 

[Deleted member 115374]

As interesting and controversial as this thread has been, it just turned the corner and went in the crapper. Now apparently with these Big Bore revolvers, it's ok to shoot a Moose in its Butt Cheek and due to having so much power, the bullet makes it thru the entire animal and thru all the vitals. The one place I'd never shoot a Moose with a pistol. Gut shots are probably another spot for good shot placement since those magical pistols can't fail. I must have missed the data on the newest bullets available that can be remotely controlled to find the vitals regardless of where you hit an animal. Sounds like we have a new name for these incredible fail proof, super guns. Bigmoors. The long lost big brother to the Creedmoor's. There's nothing they can't do. There's no other options and pointing out facts that these guns are prone to failures just as all guns are seem to be denied by all the fact finders that NEVER had an issue with there's. If there ever has been an issue, it's not the guns fault, it's user error and of course none of the guys using them here (or most) have ever caused one. Yep, sounds like 51 pages will have to be it for me. The BS is climbing. For the realists who's posts I've read and seem to make sense and have real fact, I've enjoyed your input. For those who's Bigmoor pistols NEVER fail, I hope that luck keeps working for you. Seems your the only ones that never have issues.

One of the things I've noticed throughout this thread is after calling some of us 10 MM haters and Big Bore Commandos we have gotten to the point where I think what really is going on is you and some of your fellow members in support of the 10MM have become Revolver Haters only because you are unable to convince us that what works for you should work for everyone just because it works for you. And now we've come to the issue of penetration and in my mind and past experiences, the more penetration you get on an animal the more damage you will inflict. If you have ever hunted dangerous game, the name of the game is penetration with heavy solid bullets that penetrate as far as possible. I think you 10MM guys may have hit a wall here because there is no plausible argument that can be put forward in terms of the 10MM out penetrating the Big bore revolvers nor can you shoot the heavy penetrating bullets that the big bores can. You might say well we can shoot more in a shorter period of time - doesn't matter because if you only get one or two shots - which is the more likely scenario then you are out gunned. If I were a Big Bore Revolver Hater, this would be a good time to bail on this thread.

 

[DirectDrive]

One of the things I've noticed throughout this thread is after calling some of us 10 MM haters and Big Bore Commandos we have gotten to the point where I think what really is going on is you and some of your fellow members in support of the 10MM have become Revolver Haters only because you are unable to convince us that what works for you should work for everyone just because it works for you. And now we've come to the issue of penetration and in my mind and past experiences, the more penetration you get on an animal the more damage you will inflict. If you have ever hunted dangerous game, the name of the game is penetration with heavy solid bullets that penetrate as far as possible. I think you 10MM guys may have hit a wall here because there is no plausible argument that can be put forward in terms of the 10MM out penetrating the Big bore revolvers nor can you shoot the heavy penetrating bullets that the big bores can. You might say well we can shoot more in a shorter period of time - doesn't matter because if you only get one or two shots - which is the more likely scenario then you are out gunned. If I were a Big Bore Revolver Hater, this would be a good time to bail on this thread.

I have a 629 and a G20.
So you could say that I own both of the main players here.
In my experience, I'd say it's a wash.
I could lay down more accurate fire with the G20 but the 629 hits would arguably have more effect.

So we're back to.... use what you're good with.

 

[Pdvdh]

One of the things I've noticed throughout this thread is after calling some of us 10 MM haters and Big Bore Commandos we have gotten to the point where I think what really is going on is you and some of your fellow members in support of the 10MM have become Revolver Haters only because you are unable to convince us that what works for you should work for everyone just because it works for you. And now we've come to the issue of penetration and in my mind and past experiences, the more penetration you get on an animal the more damage you will inflict. If you have ever hunted dangerous game, the name of the game is penetration with heavy solid bullets that penetrate as far as possible. I think you 10MM guys may have hit a wall here because there is no plausible argument that can be put forward in terms of the 10MM out penetrating the Big bore revolvers nor can you shoot the heavy penetrating bullets that the big bores can. You might say well we can shoot more in a shorter period of time - doesn't matter because if you only get one or two shots - which is the more likely scenario then you are out gunned. If I were a Big Bore Revolver Hater, this would be a good time to bail on this thread.

I tend to agree it was the penetration, or rather the comparative lack thereof, that took the wind out of the room.
Shame on me!

 

[Deleted member 115374]

I tend to agree it was the penetration, or rather the comparative lack thereof, that took the wind out of the room.
Shame on me!

It is what it is. We finally got down to the meat and potatoes of comparing shot per shot value of the cartridges.

 

[sea2summit]

This won't mean a thing to the haters. They don't want those facts on that cartridge. They make up there own facts that fit there opinions. The only facts they like, are the ones they put in print here. They deny the real facts on others choices in bear defense pistols if it's not a Bigmoor.

I wonder how many of them train.

I wonder how many 10mm guys will be brave enough to actually put up or shut up.

I haven't shot pistols today, did shoot rifles with my daughter to test a carbon ring issue I was having with a rifle and let her shoot some but otherwise I shot this "cold" right before because the targets had fresh paint and I wasn't ready to fire up the grill for dinner just yet.

100 yard line, six shots, single action, as long as it takes, 66% steel silhouette. Actually didn't think I'd hit it once I put that giant front sight on the target but put the tiny bead of a head in the center of the sight post and let her go. Hit on 1, 2, got cocky and missed 3, 4, connected 5, not sure what happened to six.

10 yards, I wasn't brave enough to shoot steel that close with .44 so was offset to the right about 15 degrees. Again cold minus the six shots I had just taken at 100 yards. Double action, timer was on 2 second delay and run by me which wasn't enough time, from low ready, all shots double action, 66% steel silhouette.

Shot timer reflects 12 shots but the splits lead me to believe it was picking up the hits on steel or an echo as it was last used for a suppressed .22 rifle and was on it's most sensitive setting. Either way first shot was .93 so that double action did slow me down about .25 off normal from low ready, and last detection was 5.30 but I think the last shot was 5.21 (All split times recorded: .93, 1.02, 1.85, 1.94, 2.75, 2.84, 3.60, 3.69, 4.42, 4.51, 5.21, 5.30) and believe my splits averaged .86 and were getting faster which means I need more practice.

These were Eagle 240's so not "bear" loads but somehow I'm thinking not many of the 10mm guys that train so well with their chosen pistols can beat the revolver guys who don't train. So put up or shut up please.

 

[sea2summit]

One of the things I've noticed throughout this thread is after calling some of us 10 MM haters and Big Bore Commandos we have gotten to the point where I think what really is going on is you and some of your fellow members in support of the 10MM have become Revolver Haters only because you are unable to convince us that what works for you should work for everyone just because it works for you. And now we've come to the issue of penetration and in my mind and past experiences, the more penetration you get on an animal the more damage you will inflict. If you have ever hunted dangerous game, the name of the game is penetration with heavy solid bullets that penetrate as far as possible. I think you 10MM guys may have hit a wall here because there is no plausible argument that can be put forward in terms of the 10MM out penetrating the Big bore revolvers nor can you shoot the heavy penetrating bullets that the big bores can. You might say well we can shoot more in a shorter period of time - doesn't matter because if you only get one or two shots - which is the more likely scenario then you are out gunned. If I were a Big Bore Revolver Hater, this would be a good time to bail on this thread.

There's several guys in this thread who have articulated why they use the semi's including guys who are uber smart and adjust between semi's and big revolvers based off what they are doing. I fully support that. What I don't support is the "no revolver guy can do what I can with my 10mm semi" attitude and saying revolver guys don't know how to shoot. Back up opinions with facts or demonstration (not someoneelse's youtube) and maybe we can find common ground.

 

[Deleted member 115374]

Another way of putting it might be is : If you know you have only one shot at a bear that is hell bent on tearing you limb from limb and you shoot both the 10MM and a 454, 460, 44 Mag equally well which one would you pick up given the fact that they all had the best bear defense loads appropriate for each caliber ?

 

[sea2summit]

I have a 629 and a G20.
So you could say that I own both of the main players here.
In my experience, I'd say it's a wash.
I could lay down more accurate fire with the G20 but the 629 hits would arguably have more effect.

So we're back to.... use what you're good with.

I think if it's a wash for what you're skill is but one applies more than 1,200 ft/lbs and one applies less than 1,100 ft/lbs it's not an argument for which you'd want in your hand should the need arise

But I understand weight/time to train/etc etc etc. So long as it's a deliberate decision.

 

[sea2summit]

It's a lot of hot air with a few facts sprinkled in .
Is the bear going to eat you or are you going to be able to kill the bear ?
Are you going to let fear overcome you like Florida Man (see Mark Uptain tragedy) and run away ?

Guide Phil (see earlier posts) stood in the pocket and delivered accurate fire on a charging Grizzly with a 9mm and won.
That took some stones.

We get caught up with hardware in these bear defense threads.
And you do need decent hardware.
But is your brain up to it ?
Will your brain help you win or will it make you freeze/run away ?

Using that argument, Alaskan Natives used to hunt polar bears with .22 hornets. So why don't we just use those and focus on shot placement? Because most people when put under pressure will not have perfect shot placement, so do you want to hit a bear badly with a .22 hornet or a XXX magunum when there's a possibility your life hangs on the outcome?

 

[Pdvdh]

We're running full auto now, both revolvers and pistols! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 115374]

Using that argument, Alaskan Natives used to hunt polar bears with .22 hornets. So why don't we just use those and focus on shot placement? Because most people when put under pressure will not have perfect shot placement, so do you want to hit a bear badly with a .22 hornet or a XXX magunum when there's a possibility your life hangs on the outcome?

Yea, I was about 20 yrs old when I met a guy in South Dakota that had been fortunate enough to hunt Polar Bears twice with Natives using dog sleds. He told me that when the natives got close to the bears they would turn a few of their dogs loose to distract the bear, their favorite shot was similar to the texas heart shot. They would shoot the bear with a 220 Swift right at the base of the tail to break him down at the hips, ie: take his back legs out from underneath him. Then finish him off thru the vitals at close range. I hate to say it but that was 43 yrs. ago when I met this guy and saw his trophies.