Side Arm for Grizzly Country

[Pdvdh]

Black bears kill people in Alaska also. No doubt about it.
I can't say with data-based facts, but where I live and where there's a more equal population of black and brown/grizzly bears, I think I've read of more brown/grizzly bear attacks and deaths than from black bears.
Some areas in southeast Alaska have a LOT of black bears, with fewer brown bear.

 

[sea2summit]

Just a couple of the trusted bear country sidearms. Ya, there revolvers !!! Never had one Glock fail either. Owned them since the early 90s.

Never seen those failures in person, and not worried about that type of failure.

Never seen these these either, and not afraid of it either. If it's your time it's your time.

But what I have seen multiple times and what I'd be afraid of is

*not about Glocks, I've seen it in many semi autos.

 

[ATH]

Just a couple of the trusted bear country sidearms. Ya, there revolvers !!! Never had one Glock fail either. Owned them since the early 90s.

One could easily post pics of a Glock blown from an overload or squib, which is likely what happened here. Not implying revolvers don't malfunction, only that this particular photo does not forward the counter argument.

 

[IanCo]

Don't ever think black bears can't be aggressive. I think I read an article were more people are injured and killed a year in Alaska than Brown- Grizzly bears.
When I worked in S.E Alaska on Dall Island in 1989 the surveyors carried pistols an shotguns because of black bears. I had to run one off one time with my chainsaw running wide open at the bear to get it to leave, I trust none of them ive been charged twice by black bears.

I respect black bears a lot. They have mostly the same hardware grizzlies do, just a little different attitude. It would just take bumping into one on a bad hair day for it to become a life or death situation.
We have a big one that shows up in our yard about once a year or so. I've chased him off once and my wife chased him off a couple of times. The last time my wife chased him off he sized her up after he loped off a few steps. I seen him last year bear hunting but he was 300 yards across a canyon and I had my bow that day. Found his tracks this spring but never got on him this summer or during our fall bear season.
Having a bear size you up is an experience.

 

[Pdvdh]

Just a couple of the trusted bear country sidearms. Ya, there revolvers !!! Never had one Glock fail either. Owned them since the early 90s.

A guy can blow up any firearm if he tries hard enough. Those aren't pictures of revolver failures to function. They're pictures of revolver owners failures to function. I've seen photos of bolt action rifles rupturing also. Normally the fault of the owner/operator. Some guys can break an anvil.

If I post photos of crushed cars in a salvage yard, do the photos speak to the functional reliability of those cars prior to the collisions that sent them to the salvage yard?

This will help clarify your opinions and beliefs. Is it your position that semi-auto pistols are more functionally reliable than revolvers, day-in and day-out, across the full spectrum of sidearm users, and fed the full spectrum of ammunition available for purchase and use?

Beyond being the more reliable weapon, revolvers are almost universally regarded as the more user friendly and simpler to operate weapon, compared to pistols. Most firearms trainers agree. Simpler is always a benefit, under life and death duress.

Gunsmith repair records should be a fair way to identify function failure rates. Certainly better than photos of ruptured revolvers.

 

[Pdvdh]

One thing that hasn't been discussed much in this thread is penetration depths between the most favored cartridge in pistols, clearly the 10mm, and the bigger bore and much more powerful revolver rounds.
I can load any shaped bullet in a revolver cylinder without affecting function. Full wad cutters, the extreme. I know those shapes will often fail to feed, and jam in pistols.
I can't speak to the penetration of a 200gr hard cast lead bullet from 10mm pistol. I'd guess around 24", maybe 30", into the body of a bear. Would like to know more about that. Anybody have experience with the 10mm on cows, moose, buffalo, elk, or any other large bodied animal?
I can share info on the depths of penetration experienced and expected from hard cast lead bullets in the 300-400gr weight range, with full pressure loads from .44 Mag, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 475 Limbaugh class revolver cartridges. These bullets don't expand, don't normally tumble, and remain front forward during penetration. Can count on at least 4 foot of body penetration, and 6 foot of penetration would not surprise me.

So my question to 10mm users; anyone have sufficient experiences to comment on the penetration of a 200gr hard cast lead bullet fired from a 10mm Auto?

 

[Hand Skills]

...So my question to 10mm users; anyone have sufficient experiences to comment on the penetration of a 200gr hard cast lead bullet fired from a 10mm Auto?

This is a very good question!

 

[Mustang72]

I have seen multiple revolvers fail. 4 that come to mind. 2 rossi 1 38 spl and 1 44 mag. Both needed a little trim and polish on the forcing cone. I still have the 44mag. Also did a little action work and it has performed flawlessly ever since. 1 s&w 357.-- First 20 rounds it had trigger issues -- flawless ever since. #4- even had my beloved mountain gun locked up on me! Problem was my reloads didn't have enough crimp and bullets went forward enough to bind the cylinder. Bought a Lee factory crimp die and it has been flawless ever since. I wouldn't even want to guess how many rounds in over 20 years have been through it.
Main point is both Can fail. Practice plenty and iron out any problems before you Truly need to depend on it! Doesn't matter what kind or brand.

 

[Pdvdh]

I have seen multiple revolvers fail. 4 that come to mind. 2 rossi 1 38 spl and 1 44 mag. Both needed a little trim and polish on the forcing cone. I still have the 44mag. Also did a little action work and it has performed flawlessly ever since. 1 s&w 357.-- First 20 rounds it had trigger issues -- flawless ever since. #4- even had my beloved mountain gun locked up on me! Problem was my reloads didn't have enough crimp and bullets went forward enough to bind the cylinder. Bought a Lee factory crimp die and it has been flawless ever since. I wouldn't even want to guess how many rounds in over 20 years have been through it.
Main point is both Can fail. Practice plenty and iron out any problems before you Truly need to depend on it! Doesn't matter what kind or brand.

Do you believe revolvers are more prone to malfunction than semi-auto pistols? For me, this is a comparison of reliability, and that's the pertinent question. Do you have equal experience with semi-autos? They been trouble free?
Completely agree on field testing of any sidearm. And I believe that's a common mistake of less experienced hand gunners.

 

[Mustang72]

Absolutely not! I am a revolver guy. Have had way more problems with autos. Was simply giving personal experience that revolvers can have issues also. Read back a few post and you'll see that I went back to a revolver for my daily carry.
Yes I have over thirty years and thousands of rounds experience with both. If I am heading towards trouble my 12 gauge is my first choice followed by my 629 mountain gun or 1911. But for bears I 'll pass on the 45acp.

 

[Pdvdh]

Absolutely not! I am a revolver guy. Have had way more problems with autos. Was simply giving personal experience that revolvers can have issues also. Read back a few post and you'll see that I went back to a revolver for my daily carry.
Yes I have over thirty years and thousands of rounds experience with both. If I am heading towards trouble my 12 gauge is my first choice followed by my 629 mountain gun or 1911. But for bears I 'll pass on the 45acp.

Thanks. There's been so many posts in this thread it's hard to keep track. But I remember that earlier post now. Couldn't remember it was from you.

 

[Mustang72]

Since both Can have issues I would say it is not only a reliability issue but you also have to factor in proficiency and power level . Some don't shoot revolvers well and some people can't handle recoil from a 44 mag. Those folks are better off with something they are proficient with.

 

[Pdvdh]

Regarding large revolvers and bullet penetration on large animals...,
I just checked with a buddy with the pertinent experiences.
He shot a bull moose in the butt cheek with a 300gr Freedom Arms bullet from his .454 Casull. The bullet exited the front of the bull at the neck/shoulder junction. Muzzle velocity was ~1,500fps.

He was also present when his son shot a bull moose two times with a 300gr Hornady MagTip bullet. Bull was about 60yds distant. MV close to 1,700fps. Both shots were frontal quartering shots. Bullets entered front shoulder, one on each side. Each bullet exited the rear hams on the opposite sides.
Neither of these two bullets expand very much, if at all, at those impact velocities. Bullets penetrated 6 1/2 feet of body length, and still punched through the hide.
These are the best examples I can cite. At least 6 1/2' body penetration. Our Alaskan bull moose are large bodied. The Alaskan Yukon variety.

It's likely a bullet entering the chest of a large brown bear, on a frontal shot, will exit the bear's butt.

On western grizzlies, a fair bit shorter body length than our moose, a guy should expect full length penetration. A frontal shot in their chest could break a rear leg. A shot in their butt could break a front leg/shoulder.

 

[Pdvdh]

Since both Can have issues I would say it is not only a reliability issue but you also have to factor in proficiency and power level . Some don't shoot revolvers well and some people can't handle recoil from a 44 mag. Those folks are better off with something they are proficient with.

Absolutely.

And on another note..., for the member that was counting pages in this thread, we've hit 51 pages on my smart phone. So time to extend the projection another 50 pages. Doesn't surprise me. Alaska's got a lot of bears, and Alaskans generally love bear tales. Probably the same in other States with bears.