Shooting Fast @ 1000 Yards

[Canadian Bushman]

All a moot point. The OP was asking advice for shooting groups on paper at long range for the porpose of evaluating the equipment. Hunting situations were never mentioned. I am not saying that you are wrong, mind you.

I stand by my first post....if you are evaluating equipment for accuracy, shoot as fast as you accuratly can. The statement was made earlier...."You can always just throw out horazontal dispersion in a group ane take the vertical as gun performance" ..Really??? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but WIND can and does cause vertical on target!! lightbulb And gun/bedding/crown issues can cause horazontal stringing.

It is hard enough to get a gun to shoot well at extended ranges, why would you want to factor the wind into the equasion more than nessary? RUN EM!!

Just my .02.

Tod

I said that 4xforfun

How much does wind affect your vertical dispersion. Do some research and you will find out even for a 10 or 15 mph full value wind its less than the accuracy of most rifles much less shooters, and doesnt add up to much at 1000yds.

And its far less compared to soft shouldering a rifle, having the butt of the rifle slip off the bag, or shooting in a changing condition because your rushing.

If your rifle is horizontal stringing because a mechanical defect it will do so consistently regardless of the wind and wont change if you shoot 5 shots in 5 seconds or 50.

If you shoot 5 shots at 1000 and they all felt good, you plotted the wind the best you could and got a nice solid hold each time and it produced a group 10" wide and 3" tall. Chances are thats a pretty accurate rifle thats doing its job. Vertical stringing is far more common at 1000 yds than horizontal stringing not caused by wind.

Shooting fast is a technique used by match shooters to get thier shots into a small group before conditions change.

If you wanna rush your shots in testing without compensating for conditions outside of any time restraints or regulations, have at it, but that makes about as much sense as three shooters taking one gun deer hunting.

 

[No Fear in Accuracy]

I've seen the benchrest shooters do shoot very fast if the condition remains the same for a short time.

Also I was learned that when you shoot over 1,000 yards, don't expect that you will hit a target at first time. It is recommend that you shoot, let's say 100 yards to the left or right of the animal to ensure that the bullet impact in the right spot (stump, log, dirt). If it hits the right place, then reload as quickly then turn it to aim the animal.

 

[C.O. Shooter]

Again, thank you for the responses. I'll have the time and the ammo, I'll try it both ways. 5 fast/5 slow!

 

[FearNoWind]

None of the 1K competition shooters I shoot with choose speed over accuracy. Many of them prefer to get their shots off within the shortest amount of time so that they can take advantage of stable atmospheric conditions, especially winds, but their goal is not to fire off as many shots as they can in a short time. Their goal is to load a followup round, line up on the target as quickly as possible, with the best form possible, and accurately squeeze off the shot. If they can do that firing five shots in ten seconds, that's what they do. If it takes twenty seconds, that's what they do. Emphasis is on accuracy, not speed. If a full value wind includes gusts that change the winds from 5MPH to 10MPH between your first and last shot you'll be at the mercy of lady luck and not entirely in control of your shooting results.
In competition I have five minutes to fire ten rounds. I use all five minutes. Learning to read the wind and adjust to accommodate for its influence on the shot requires more skill than waiting for a lull in the wind and firing off ten shots as quickly as I can.

 

[LeddSlinger]

Exactly right. 1K BR shooters don't shoot that fast just to show off or see how quickly they can get them down range. They do it to get them down there under the most "identical" conditions possible. I have witnessed a fellow competitor get off 10 rounds in about 20 seconds while making a scope windage adjustment on two of the shots.....and he still end up putting all 10 shots under 5" at 1000 yards.

The method of group shooting used by "runners" in competition is a discipline that works and is more effective than waiting for the wind to blow a flag with just the right speed before you fire each round. Though much of the wind reading is done with mirage.

Now that being said, those 1K Benchrest rifles are built specifically for that type of shooting with either dual ports or even a drop port in the bottom for case ejection. The rifles are also generally built with calibers yielding very low recoil. The shooter never has to even take his eye off the scope or budge an inch from his shooting position as he/she cycles the action for ejection/loading after each shot.

That style of shooting is much more difficult in a hunting application because the ejection port is almost always the same as the loading port on a hunting rifle and rests found in the field amongst natural geologic formations are not very ideal at times. However, I do believe that it is a very good practice to get rounds down range as fast as your rest and situation will allow. Pick a solid window with the wind and animal position for the first shot, give a good follow through on the shot, then load another round as quickly as possible to get back on target and ready if a follow up shot is needed. But knowing how to properly read the wind for that perfect first shot is by far the most important to being a successful long range hunter

Just my 2C

 

[4xforfun]

I said that 4xforfun

How much does wind affect your vertical dispersion. Do some research and you will find out even for a 10 or 15 mph full value wind its less than the accuracy of most rifles much less shooters, and doesnt add up to much at 1000yds.


And its far less compared to soft shouldering a rifle, having the butt of the rifle slip off the bag, or shooting in a changing condition because your rushing.

If your rifle is horizontal stringing because a mechanical defect it will do so consistently regardless of the wind and wont change if you shoot 5 shots in 5 seconds or 50.

If you shoot 5 shots at 1000 and they all felt good, you plotted the wind the best you could and got a nice solid hold each time and it produced a group 10" wide and 3" tall. Chances are thats a pretty accurate rifle thats doing its job. Vertical stringing is far more common at 1000 yds than horizontal stringing not caused by wind.

Shooting fast is a technique used by match shooters to get thier shots into a small group before conditions change.

If you wanna rush your shots in testing without compensating for conditions outside of any time restraints or regulations, have at it, but that makes about as much sense as three shooters taking one gun deer hunting.

Wind------You are talking about horozontal winds. If you shoot on dead flat land, that is all you will see. And you are correct...it doesn't add up to much. Add hills, valleys, ditches, ect and you get VERTICLE WIND. Go up and shoot a 1K match at the Harris MN range. It's not uncomon to see a foot of vertical caused by wind. Lots of times you can look at the targets on a relay at a match and see where a push or letoff cought most of the field and the shots string to the left or right....well, at Harris you can also see a foot of verticle, and it will affect 90% of the shooters on a relay. It's there, and it's pure VOODOO.

If the rifle slips off of the bag or your sholder, you are shooting too fast. I said shoot as fast as you ACCURATLY CAN.

You are absolutly correct, match shooters shoot as fast as they can to shoot small groups. Learn from that statement. There is nothing hidden in it...shooting fast makes small groups. If a compeditor scrwes up his/her group by shooting TO FAST and loosing control of his equipment, then he shot TO FAST. Shooting as fast as YOU CAN is not the same as shooting as fast as possible.

The odds of a condition changing in 30 seconds is much, much less than say, 5 min. I am not saying shoot your string in 10 seconds with a round bottom 338 lapua...pretty sure it can't be done accurately. BUT doing it in 1 min vs 5 min....very doable and it will yeild better results.

 

[yobuck]

the op will no doubt figure out what works for him. since he's from pa i assume some
of his hunting will be done there. the method he uses there will no doubt be similar to what most others there use also.

as for 3 hunters using one gun there are several reasons and they are as follows.
#1 would be cost, do you know what these things cost nowdays?
#2 space, in order to have 3 guns set up there would be a need to cut down lots
more trees to have enough space for that.
#4 weight. @20lb a pop its just easier to spread the load out among more people.
this way 1 guy carries the gun, 1 guy carries the bench, one guy carries the glasses.
problem is usually, "nobody carries the ammo".
#5 barrel life. when you shoot fast like this barrels tend to heat up. especially with all the shots we shoot. this way we can use somebody elses fresh gun tommorrow.
#6 the most important of all. if you miss you have a valid excuse. its the other guys lousey shooting gun. probably caused by all his verticle or horizontal.

anybody care for a venison sandwich?

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...
anybody care for a venison sandwich?

I'll take Vegamite please.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Wind------You are talking about horozontal winds. If you shoot on dead flat land, that is all you will see. And you are correct...it doesn't add up to much. Add hills, valleys, ditches, ect and you get VERTICLE WIND. Go up and shoot a 1K match at the Harris MN range. It's not uncomon to see a foot of vertical caused by wind. Lots of times you can look at the targets on a relay at a match and see where a push or letoff cought most of the field and the shots string to the left or right....well, at Harris you can also see a foot of verticle, and it will affect 90% of the shooters on a relay. It's there, and it's pure VOODOO.

You have a point there, the op did not describe the enviroment he was doing his testing in. If it has a very dynamic terrain it can have up drafts and down drafts that affect vertical dispersion, this is a fact.
Usually the vertical factors of the wind are a fraction of the horizontal and typically cover a much smaller area of the bullets flight, but must still be accounted for. All the more reason to take your time and pay attention to detail.

I said shoot as fast as you ACCURATLY CAN.

You did. And i should've quoted you more accurately. I took it out of context with the ideas coming from other post.

You are absolutly correct, match shooters shoot as fast as they can to shoot small groups. Learn from that statement. There is nothing hidden in it...shooting fast makes small groups.

This is not accurate or true.
I said -

Shooting fast is a technique used by match shooters to get thier shots into a small group before conditions change.

If you are shooting quicker to shoot inside a current condition this can reduce the size of your group at long range.
If you are not paying attention to conditions, rushing, or shooting fast just to shoot fast because some guy said so, chances are you are not gonna shoot the smallest group possible.
In rapidly changing conditions shooting fast will ruin a string.
I see this all the time when someone is trying out the technique of "shooting fast" because a more experienced shooter says it works. And while the experiened shooter took his finger off the trigger because the flags dropped, johnny hot barrel is over there banging away.

Shooting as fast as YOU CAN is not the same as shooting as fast as possible.

Youre gonna have to elaborate because to me it sounds exactly the same.

The odds of a condition changing in 30 seconds is much, much less than say, 5 min. I am not saying shoot your string in 10 seconds with a round bottom 338 lapua...pretty sure it can't be done accurately. BUT doing it in 1 min vs 5 min....very doable and it will yeild better results.

Before this spirals any further into another usless discussion lets clarify a few things that ive been taking as understood.
Im not saying drink a beer and have a snack between shots. Im saying take the time that is needed to be sure you are making the most accurate shot possible.
When testing find the flattest cleanest place to shoot that is available to you, and get there in the early morning or late evening when winds are usually calm.
Shooting in a long wind or long lull is wind reading 101
Shooting 1 round a minute is not fast. Once set up and a sighter was sent 1 minute is enough time to evaluate whether the conditions have changed.
Shooting 10 rnds in a minute is fast.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

the op will no doubt figure out what works for him. since he's from pa i assume some
of his hunting will be done there. the method he uses there will no doubt be similar to what most others there use also.

as for 3 hunters using one gun there are several reasons and they are as follows.
#1 would be cost, do you know what these things cost nowdays?
#2 space, in order to have 3 guns set up there would be a need to cut down lots
more trees to have enough space for that.
#4 weight. @20lb a pop its just easier to spread the load out among more people.
this way 1 guy carries the gun, 1 guy carries the bench, one guy carries the glasses.
problem is usually, "nobody carries the ammo".
#5 barrel life. when you shoot fast like this barrels tend to heat up. especially with all the shots we shoot. this way we can use somebody elses fresh gun tommorrow.
#6 the most important of all. if you miss you have a valid excuse. its the other guys lousey shooting gun. probably caused by all his verticle or horizontal.

anybody care for a venison sandwich?

If that makes sense to you cool,
But im taking my rifle hunting, im dropping my animal with my bullet from my gun, and hit or miss excuses wont be made.

 

[yobuck]

Apperently my shots are all going high. Maybe if i add some of those funny faces?

 

[dragman]

If I want to test a specific load at distance I go to my shooting spot very early in the day just at day brake. that way there is no to very little wind. and then I settle in and shoot a group. Not super slow but not at bench rest speed either. With the conditions being consistent and calm this should give you your best result for what your looking for.
I leave fast shooting for a bag rest set up. while pealing off 5 shots in 15-20 seconds is important to capitalize on wind during a match it has no baring on anything else but what it is. when bipod shooting in the field it's one set up, read conditions, shoot. the next shot is a complete start over IMHO.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

If I want to test a specific load at distance I go to my shooting spot very early in the day just at day brake. that way there is no to very little wind. and then I settle in and shoot a group. Not super slow but not at bench rest speed either. With the conditions being consistent and calm this should give you your best result for what your looking for.
I leave fast shooting for a bag rest set up. while pealing off 5 shots in 15-20 seconds is important to capitalize on wind during a match it has no baring on anything else but what it is. when bipod shooting in the field it's one set up, read conditions, shoot. the next shot is a complete start over IMHO.

So im not the only one who thinks this is S.O.P.

 

[yobuck]

If I want to test a specific load at distance I go to my shooting spot very early in the day just at day brake. that way there is no to very little wind. and then I settle in and shoot a group. Not super slow but not at bench rest speed either. With the conditions being consistent and calm this should give you your best result for what your looking for.
I leave fast shooting for a bag rest set up. while pealing off 5 shots in 15-20 seconds is important to capitalize on wind during a match it has no baring on anything else but what it is. when bipod shooting in the field it's one set up, read conditions, shoot. the next shot is a complete start over IMHO.

What is not taken into account here is differences in shooting styles while hunting.
Apperently most here think everybody shoots from their belly while using a bipod.
Thats simply not the case. I'll ask a simple question. Would your opinion change if
all your shooting was from a bench even while hunting?
Because thats the way its done in pa where i hunt. I dont know a single person who shoots from their belly. Everybody there uses a bench or some very substancial rest including flat rocks piled up at remote locations.
I have no doubts as to the ability of some of those responding here.
I also have no illusions as to my own and others i hunt with. Theres simply no way
the scenario i described with the 3 bucks would have happened had we been shooting from our bellies. I suspect ego plays a roll with some of us as to our opinions. At least 25% of the deer weve killed have been taken by young kids who
can shoot a decent 100 yd group. but they are good listeners and do as their told
when shooting. What should that tell you? It should tell you it aint hard if its done
the right way AND distances arent extreme.