Savage question?

[Rem700addict]

So I bought a savage Xp model 11 in 6.5 creedmoor this past Christmas. I've recently have upgraded the stock to a hogue with factory dbm. I have fell in love with this round and I like the gun for he little money I have in it so far. All this being said I have a problem, I bought some hornady 140grn match bullets with the amax bullet, when I went to chamber a round it was pretty tight to get the bolt to cam over. This is my first savage and I thought it may be the bolt needing a little more breaking in. This being said I've Ben reloading for it and have been using the hodgdon COAL which is the same as the hornady match 140grn COAL and the rounds have still been tight to chamber. I took a real good look at it today and I don't have any good tools to measure the chamber with a couple methods I've used it seems the bullets are jamming into the lands. I know this was a long explain action, but has anyone seen this before with their savage rifles? If I can't use the Longer COAL then I can't shoot the 140grners and defeats the purpose of me buying this rifle. I will contact savage Monday morning, but just wanted to hear you guys thoughts on this. I'm super excited about the creedmoor round as my new deer round and long paper puncher and I even like the little gun, but I will not like it if I can't shoot the 140's due to chamber tightness.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I have never had an issue with any of my Savage's, that doesn't mean others haven't. I would mark the bullet with a Sharpie and chamber a round, take it out and inspect it . You may need to lengthen the throat. I have a CBI barrel that I use for long-range ftr., could use a longer throat , but shoots so good. Check things out before you move on.

 

[RonS]

Pick up the Hornady bullet comparitor gauges. All you need is a micrometer, the comparitor holder, the comparitor, the shell and the tool to drive the bullet to the lands. On my LRP in 6.5 creedmoor the base to ogive on the 140 Bergers is 2.265, on the Hornady match 140's it is 2.262 and on the Sierra Matchkings it is 2.275. You need to get some of the AMAX bullets you're shooting for use with the gauges. Your problem could be headspace or you could be jamming. If Jamming, I'd set the bullets a little deeper as it could result in pressure spikes with the load they are using.

 

[Rem700addict]

I actually do have the hornady ogive tools for my calipers, however the kit didn't come with a bushing to measure a 6.5 ogive bullet, got to get one sometime. I'm going to do a little more measuring today, the gun shoots well. I've been using the 2.820" coal that both hornady and hodgdon use for the 140 amax's, I thought this should surely be a safe seating depth to start at.

 

[RonS]

I don't usually pay attention to what is recommended for the COAL. I measure the base to ogive for a given bullet then start at .020 off the lands. Following that I work up loads varying two tenths of a grain and find the accuracy nodes. When I've found those I then start playing with seating depth to see if I can tune it further. With the 6.5 .020 seem to be pretty optimum so the base to ogive for my load in the LRP is 2.245 with 40.9 grains of H4350 using the Berger hybrid 140's. That's good for about 2800 fps and 1/4 MOA accuracy. I'm using that gun for long range F Class and it shoots well out to 1000 yards. At that distance the limiting factor is my wind reading skills... which need considerable work...

 

[FEENIX]

I don't usually pay attention to what is recommended for the COAL. I measure the base to ogive for a given bullet then start at .020 off the lands. Following that I work up loads varying two tenths of a grain and find the accuracy nodes. When I've found those I then start playing with seating depth to see if I can tune it further. With the 6.5 .020 seem to be pretty optimum so the base to ogive for my load in the LRP is 2.245 with 40.9 grains of H4350 using the Berger hybrid 140's. That's good for about 2800 fps and 1/4 MOA accuracy. I'm using that gun for long range F Class and it shoots well out to 1000 yards. At that distance the limiting factor is my wind reading skills... which need considerable work...

Same here but I pay very closed attention both the CBTO and COAL to formulate the best compromise between the two for my particular rifle and purpose. Below is an excellent article from Berger (Bryan Litz) ...

Effects of COAL and CBTO | Part 1 | Berger Bullets Blog

Effects of COAL and CBTO | Part 2 | Berger Bullets Blog

 

[Rem700addict]

Since I haven't ordered my other piece to measure the 6.5 ogive yet I have just been using the COAL of 2.82 thinking this would be a safe starting point then working in .5 grain increments to find my powder node. My main reason for just getting to addressing this issue is because I was going to play with seating depth to see if I could gain a little more accuracy. The only powder I have on hand for this round is H414 so this has been a little bit of an experimentation since not many guys I've read us this powder. So far even with the problem I've found it still has been shooting around .5 Mao. That said at longer distances I've noticed some vertical stringing and was kind of relating it to the possible jamming of the bullet into the lands.

 

[Dosh]

Addict, are you using new factory ammo, from your post there is indication you are reloading once fired brass? What procedure do you resize and are you checking for shoulder stretch? Some brass is softer and perhaps needing a shoulder reset to spec after firing. Have you tried to chamber a fired case? If the brass won't chamber the OAL tool will not be of much help. I once looked over a friend's Savage which could not chamber his reloaded Berger VLD's cause they touched the lands. Found the chamber would not allow them even at load book seating. He sent it back to Savage and it was returned with a different barrel. Without any explanation, but accepts the VLD's now. If you return it, remove the upgrades. Don't want to give them anything to point a finger at. Good luck

 

[Rem700addict]

This has happened with both the factory hornady match ammo and my reloads both with the 140grn amax's. My unloaded brass chambers just fine. Does anyone know if Savage has area gun smiths who are savage certified or do you have to ship the guns back to savage?

 

[Dgd6mm]

is that fired, unloaded, and not sized? in other words fired, open the bolt , extract, rechamber.

 

[RonS]

Same here but I pay very closed attention both the CBTO and COAL to formulate the best compromise between the two for my particular rifle and purpose. Below is an excellent article from Berger (Bryan Litz) ...

Effects of COAL and CBTO | Part 1 | Berger Bullets Blog

Effects of COAL and CBTO | Part 2 | Berger Bullets Blog

I've seen them. The trouble I have with people using COAL is that it is dependent on the depth of the throat and the shape of the bullet. It would be possible for example for a bullet of a particularly blunt shape to end up being jammed while the COAL is within acceptable specs if one were to take a COAL value off a different bullet intended for a rifle barrel cut with a different reamer. That could result in excessive pressure and is the reason I take all my base to ogive measurements for each bullet I want to develop a load for.

It seems to me that COAL is only an issue for those who are limited by mag length and they want to mag feed their rounds. I'm single feeding. In the case of mag feeding, any discussion of base to ogive is not all that important as they are limited in what they can do from a seating depth perspective.

 

[RonS]

Since I haven't ordered my other piece to measure the 6.5 ogive yet I have just been using the COAL of 2.82 thinking this would be a safe starting point then working in .5 grain increments to find my powder node. My main reason for just getting to addressing this issue is because I was going to play with seating depth to see if I could gain a little more accuracy. The only powder I have on hand for this round is H414 so this has been a little bit of an experimentation since not many guys I've read us this powder. So far even with the problem I've found it still has been shooting around .5 Mao. That said at longer distances I've noticed some vertical stringing and was kind of relating it to the possible jamming of the bullet into the lands.

Remember that the comparitors are a "relative" measurement. They may perfectly match the diameter of your lands and as such provide a precise location of your lands relative to the base of the brass you are using or they may not. The brass you are using to attach to the tool is another variable which makes the measurement relative. That piece of brass may not precisely match the cut of your chamber. As long as you are using the same piece of brass and the same comparitor it will at least provide consistent measurements that will tell you how far back or how far jammed you are with your seating depth.

There are a number of causes for vertical stringing. One being varying charges. Another being neck tension. Still another being shifting head or tail winds.

 

[Rem700addict]

Remember that the comparitors are a "relative" measurement. They may perfectly match the diameter of your lands and as such provide a precise location of your lands relative to the base of the brass you are using or they may not. The brass you are using to attach to the tool is another variable which makes the measurement relative. That piece of brass may not precisely match the cut of your chamber. As long as you are using the same piece of brass and the same comparitor it will at least provide consistent measurements that will tell you how far back or how far jammed you are with your seating depth.

There are a number of causes for vertical stringing. One being varying charges. Another being neck tension. Still another being shifting head or tail winds.

I did take a unloaded round, and pressed an 140 amax to the COAL of 2.82 which is given in the Hogdon manual and is used for the COAL of the hornady match 140's. I chambered the unloaded round and still had the same resistance, when I carefully unchambered the round the COAL dropped down to 2.65. I didn't this several times to make sure I was getting an accurate reading. With that COAL of 2.65, makes this round a major compressed load. My brass sizing is fine, when I load a piece of brass that had 2 firings on it the bolt dropped down with ease. I did contact Savage this morning and they are going to take a look at it, UPS is picking up the rifle tomorrow. I forgot to ask though how long they thought it would take. I know this is not a high end rifle and i'm not expecting it to be but I can't live with that short of a chamber, not to knock Savage at all. I've tried measureing and thinking of anything else that it could be and can only come to the conclusion that they chamber is to short. Thanks for the replies guys I appreciate the info.

 

[Dgd6mm]

short throat.