Savage Headspacing

[Jflyer]

Hi Guys,

I have a question about headspacing a Savage 111, I have built a couple hunting rifles before and I have always headspaced them using a go-no-go gauge. I have just finished building a long range precision rifle and put a McGowen match grade barrel on it. I brought it to my local smith to look over before bringing to the range as this is my first match grade barrel I've used, and he took it apart and headspaced it using a new piece of brass. Now I will only be using the same brand of brass in the rifle however when I checked it with the go gauge the bolt would no longer close, All of my rounds seem to chamber fine but I'm not sure if this set up will be too tight to allow proper brass expansion or if I will encounter any other problems. The first time I shoot it I will obviously be looking for flattened primers, but I am concerned if having the Headspace too tight could cause any damage to my new barrel?

Thank You for any input.

 

[RichinVA]

Re: Savage Headspacing
You'll be fine. I have never used a gauge to headspace a Savage barrel, only brass. In theory, you don't want the brass to expand any place other than the neck so as to release the bullet. Let's call it minimal expansion, as you can't have zero and expect anything to fit. Less expansion = less stretching of brass = longer brass life = more concentric fit of brass to chamber. This way you can just bump the shoulder on hand loads for a long time without using a FLS die, all other things working properly. Smoke the neck of a few pieces to insure clearance.

I try several pieces of brass and set the headspace on the tightest fit.

Check your chamber length as well to get a baseline for case length.

HTH

Rich

PS I have a 308 McGowen barrel that will hit my porch on Monday. First one for me, hope it's a winner.

 

[bigngreen]

Re headspace it CORRECTLY like you had it with the go gauge!! New brass is usually a few thou under spec, then when you fire it and don't bring it out to the correct length then you'll be grinding of the bottom of a die to get it sized correctly because you set the headspace way short. You can start a whole other set of issues doing it on brass, setting your headspace to .001 give or take .0005 on a go gauge will give you a more harmonious outcome over all!!

 

[RichinVA]

The key is to use a shim on the bolt face to gain that .001. I just assumed your smith did that.

I've done maybe 25-30 rifles this way, never had anyone complain about grinding a die. Besides, it's easier to grind the shell holder.......

If your smith set the headspace tight without using a shim or backing off the barrel a smidgen, then that IS incorrect.

 

[Jflyer]

Yes he did back the barrel off of the new case a small amount so the bolt closes freely on all of my ammunition. Is this correct then for optimal accuracy?

 

[RichinVA]

Yes he did back the barrel off of the new case a small amount so the bolt closes freely on all of my ammunition. Is this correct then for optimal accuracy?

That's what I do.

 

[Bill Johnson]

The method of headspacing affects case life more than anything else.

I would not presume to tell anyone that the method used is right or wrong but I would say that the "GO" specification is there for a reason. That standard practice is there for a reason.

Bigngreen's point is spot on, IMO. The method of using a "new" cartridge case may work initially, but cases vary considerably lot-to-lot from the same manufacturer. If you ever get to the point, and you probably will, that it takes some degree of force on the bolt handle to completely chamber the round, the recommended bolt lug lube, usually an oil, will be insufficient to prevent eventual locking lug galling.

 

[geargrinder]

Re headspace it CORRECTLY like you had it with the go gauge!! New brass is usually a few thou under spec, then when you fire it and don't bring it out to the correct length then you'll be grinding of the bottom of a die to get it sized correctly because you set the headspace way short. You can start a whole other set of issues doing it on brass, setting your headspace to .001 give or take .0005 on a go gauge will give you a more harmonious outcome over all!!

This +10000

I've gone down that road. Never set headspace off a piece of new brass.

I'll only set from fired and sized brass or the proper gauges.

 

[RichinVA]

This +10000

I've gone down that road. Never set headspace off a piece of new brass.

I'll only set from fired and sized brass or the proper gauges.

Fired from what?

 

[Engineering101]

Me and a buddy just bought identical Savage VLPs in 300 WSM. We were able to chamber a no-go gage in his rifle! I've never seen that before. We reheadspaced both rifles with the barrel screwed down on a go gage - snug but not tight. The last line of writing on the barrel on both rifles is now no longer visible as the barrel was rotated so that the writing dropped below the wood on the stock.

Here is the interesting part, my buddy had bought a box of Nosler 180 Accubond ammo as it is about the same price as the brass! Anyway, some of those rounds but not all of them would not chamber with any kind of normal effort. We guessed that Nosler had compressed the crap out of the powder in that ammo and had bulged the cases in the shoulder area so we pulled the bullets, took the powder out (we had to dig the powder out with a needle). Then we FL resized the cases, reprimed with Fed 215s and no problem, they all fit smooth.

The reason I use a go gage to set headspace - it is a precision tool and is highly repeatable. I have timed brakes on several Savage barrels and the barrels need to be put back in the same place for the timing to be correct. Also, I want minimum headspace BUT I want the headspace to be within industry standards so it matches up with standard dies. I don't care about factory ammo as I personally have never bought any centerfire factory ammo.

 

[tgonza]

I've done numerous build and use the brass method most of the time especially if don't have a go gauge. What I typically do is use a case sized close to factory specs, without setting back shoulder. Although I have used the tape method in the past, I do like to use a no go gauge to make sure bolt stops appropriately. Tape can be a little soft and not too precise.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Me and a buddy just bought identical Savage VLPs in 300 WSM. We were able to chamber a no-go gage in his rifle! I've never seen that before. We reheadspaced both rifles with the barrel screwed down on a go gage - snug but not tight. The last line of writing on the barrel on both rifles is now no longer visible as the barrel was rotated so that the writing dropped below the wood on the stock.

Here is the interesting part, my buddy had bought a box of Nosler 180 Accubond ammo as it is about the same price as the brass! Anyway, some of those rounds but not all of them would not chamber with any kind of normal effort. We guessed that Nosler had compressed the crap out of the powder in that ammo and had bulged the cases in the shoulder area so we pulled the bullets, took the powder out (we had to dig the powder out with a needle). Then we FL resized the cases, reprimed with Fed 215s and no problem, they all fit smooth.

The reason I use a go gage to set headspace - it is a precision tool and is highly repeatable. I have timed brakes on several Savage barrels and the barrels need to be put back in the same place for the timing to be correct. Also, I want minimum headspace BUT I want the headspace to be within industry standards so it matches up with standard dies. I don't care about factory ammo as I personally have never bought any centerfire factory ammo.

my buddy and I bought model 10 LE Savages in .308, from the factory they would both close on a no-go gauge. We re-headspaced both rifles with gauges.

 

[geargrinder]

Fired from what?

Anything. Then you size it with your FL die. Then set the headspace with tape, spacer....etc.

As stated earlier in the thread, new brass can be seriously under sized.

Firing them in any chamber will let them grow enough to get them properly sized.

 

[RichinVA]

Anything. Then you size it with your FL die. Then set the headspace with tape, spacer....etc.

As stated earlier in the thread, new brass can be seriously under sized.

Firing them in any chamber will let them grow enough to get them properly sized.

Not trying to be stubborn or antagonistic here. Just saying that there is more than one way to do this. Sometimes a piece of fired brass is hard to obtain, depending upon the cartridge choice. I will certainly agree that a piece of fired, sized brass is preferable, if you're comfortable with its provenance.

New brass can be undersized. It doesn't mean it is.

The modularity (!) of a Savage makes for easy adjustments down the road if you don't like something.