Not all radial MBs are created equal. Here's Holland's radial baffle quick discharge muzzle brake [FONT=Verdana, Arial]([/FONT] Holland's Gunsmithing & Shooters Supply )
and you can shoot them in prone position.
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Savage 111 7mm rem mag customization
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Not all radial MBs are created equal. Here's Holland's radial baffle quick discharge muzzle brake [FONT=Verdana, Arial]([/FONT] Holland's Gunsmithing & Shooters Supply )
and you can shoot them in prone position.
diriel
Well-Known Member
I am behind the time a bit, Thank you for that!
Gary
Gary
Not all radial MBs are created equal. Here's Holland's radial baffle quick discharge muzzle brake [FONT=Verdana, Arial]([/FONT] Holland's Gunsmithing & Shooters Supply )
and you can shoot them in prone position.
Holland Radial Muzzle Brake #1‏ - YouTube
Feenix, I believe diriel is referring to the muzzle brakes that don't need timing; like
the ones that look the same regardless of its position, and yes, they do pick up a lot
of garbage when you shoot them from prone. The one your showing above has to be
timed and only one position is acceptable. That one (just like the one I have on my
Edge) do pretty good.
Eaglet,
I understand what you're saying, all I was trying to point out is that, most often when the terminology "radial" is used with muzzle brakes, it's commonly associated with strategically drilled holes all around such as compared with the vais ... and as you can see Darrell Holland and other gunsmiths/MB designers are also associating radial to their designs.
Taken from a patent website >>> A muzzle brake is a cylinder with at least one opening "radially" disposed from a central bore.
Having said, there are non-vais type MBs that do not require a gunsmith to index it. A friend has a Roedale on his .308.
Roedale Precision WebShop - Muzzle Brakes
Similarly ...
http://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/
and
by EBI ARMS (imported by Roedale)
I understand what you're saying, all I was trying to point out is that, most often when the terminology "radial" is used with muzzle brakes, it's commonly associated with strategically drilled holes all around such as compared with the vais ... and as you can see Darrell Holland and other gunsmiths/MB designers are also associating radial to their designs.
Taken from a patent website >>> A muzzle brake is a cylinder with at least one opening "radially" disposed from a central bore.
Having said, there are non-vais type MBs that do not require a gunsmith to index it. A friend has a Roedale on his .308.
Roedale Precision WebShop - Muzzle Brakes
Similarly ...
http://shop.grizzlygunworks.com/
and
by EBI ARMS (imported by Roedale)
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geargrinder
Well-Known Member
Lots of semantics and word play going on here.
There's term "radial" which is describing the spacing and location of the gas ports as well as "radial" which is part of the name of Holland's brake. It's given the name because of the radial shape of baffles directing the gasses.
In my opinion the patent definition you quoted applies to the Vais/Radial style brakes not Mr. Holland's.
Then there are the terms "timed" and "indexed". In my book they mean the same thing. Brakes that have ports that are "radially" spaced do not need to be "timed/indexed". All others need to be. The ones that do need to be fixed to stay "timed/indexed". That can be done be being fitted against a shoulder(most common method) or by set screws, clamps, jam nuts, or some other sort.
I just wanted to make sure we were all speaking the same language and supplied my meanings when I use those terms.
There's term "radial" which is describing the spacing and location of the gas ports as well as "radial" which is part of the name of Holland's brake. It's given the name because of the radial shape of baffles directing the gasses.
In my opinion the patent definition you quoted applies to the Vais/Radial style brakes not Mr. Holland's.
Then there are the terms "timed" and "indexed". In my book they mean the same thing. Brakes that have ports that are "radially" spaced do not need to be "timed/indexed". All others need to be. The ones that do need to be fixed to stay "timed/indexed". That can be done be being fitted against a shoulder(most common method) or by set screws, clamps, jam nuts, or some other sort.
I just wanted to make sure we were all speaking the same language and supplied my meanings when I use those terms.
I totally agree! I found that reference regarding Vais patent application. Thanks for your clarification, esp. the fact that it does not "need" to be a vais type MB when getting a prefit barrel.
In addition to semantics and word play (not on this post), there's confusion between muzzle brake and muzzle break ... just saying.
Thanks again.
geargrinder
Well-Known Member
In addition to semantics and word play (not on this post), there's confusion between muzzle brake and muzzle break ... just saying.
Thanks again.
That one really gets me. Not so much from the average Joe, but it really gets me going when I see it written that way from the smith or manufacturer that wants me to buy one from them.
btw...I just bought a very nice brake on Ebay for $19 shipped. It was threaded standard 5/8"-24. Fit on my prefit E.R. Shaw 308 perfectly.
diriel
Well-Known Member
I specifically mentioned Vais in my post for a reason. They make a good brake, but they do kick up a good bit of debris. I do not claim to have kept up with all recent innovations on brake tech. It seems you have pretty well nailed down the terms and usage patterns.
I have used Braked rifles, and non braked. Each have their place. If it is a 300wm that i will try to practice at long range with, BRAKE PLEASE!!! If that makes me a *****, well ok!! Putting 50 to 100 rounds down range in a days time with a 300 win mag in practice at 800 to 1200 yards is NOT my idea of a Fun Day!! It sucks, even with a good brake! Not a whole lot of people really CAN put that many rounds down range, braked or not, with heavy 300 win mag rounds. I am kinda sorta one of those, but prefer not to be Hence the 6.5x55 BJAI!! Since then, I "THINK* I have graduated up enough to be capable of a 7mmRM. I hope. I think.... The new setup will *HOPEFULLY* weigh in at WELL over 17 lbs.... I am still considering the BRAKE on the new 7mm RM.... not really decided. But i will NOT be fluting, as i Want Weight!! More Weight = Less recoil! haha, yes, I am a *****!! I will gladly lug the extra "few" pounds of weight to the shooting spot!
Good luck, and Consider carefully sir,
Gary
I have used Braked rifles, and non braked. Each have their place. If it is a 300wm that i will try to practice at long range with, BRAKE PLEASE!!! If that makes me a *****, well ok!! Putting 50 to 100 rounds down range in a days time with a 300 win mag in practice at 800 to 1200 yards is NOT my idea of a Fun Day!! It sucks, even with a good brake! Not a whole lot of people really CAN put that many rounds down range, braked or not, with heavy 300 win mag rounds. I am kinda sorta one of those, but prefer not to be
Hence the 6.5x55 BJAI!! Since then, I "THINK* I have graduated up enough to be capable of a 7mmRM. I hope. I think.... The new setup will *HOPEFULLY* weigh in at WELL over 17 lbs.... I am still considering the BRAKE on the new 7mm RM.... not really decided. But i will NOT be fluting, as i Want Weight!! More Weight = Less recoil! haha, yes, I am a *****!! I will gladly lug the extra "few" pounds of weight to the shooting spot!Good luck, and Consider carefully sir,
Gary
Gary,
There's no doubt that Vais MBs are good brakes. There are members here that have them too. On previous posts, some of them just use shooting mats or similar to control or eliminate debris blasts when shooting prone.
IMHO, the use of MBs are no longer just a matter of recoil reduction. Reducing the muzzle jump to see the target hit and ease in target re-acquisition is the trend. Trend or not, I like it. Heck you even see them on .22s and air rifles!
BTW, the 6.5x55 BJAI is sweet. I have an old Carl Gustav 1894M carbine in 6.5x55 Swede that I use for when the terrain is too thick to navigate and get a shot.
Good luck on the new rig and keep us posted. Cheers!
Ed
There's no doubt that Vais MBs are good brakes. There are members here that have them too. On previous posts, some of them just use shooting mats or similar to control or eliminate debris blasts when shooting prone.
IMHO, the use of MBs are no longer just a matter of recoil reduction. Reducing the muzzle jump to see the target hit and ease in target re-acquisition is the trend. Trend or not, I like it. Heck you even see them on .22s and air rifles!
BTW, the 6.5x55 BJAI is sweet. I have an old Carl Gustav 1894M carbine in 6.5x55 Swede that I use for when the terrain is too thick to navigate and get a shot.
Good luck on the new rig and keep us posted. Cheers!
Ed
diriel
Well-Known Member
FEENIX,
Yeah, one of the biggest reasons I am considering a Brake, even with a LOT of rifle weight, is to ensure I can spot vapour Trail / spot bullet strikes. It sure makes life a bit easier when trying to sort conditions and such out.
I hear you on the shooting mat. I do use one most days, but once in a while something happens and it gets left at home or some such... Hell, I even once forgot my dang ammo! Now that was embarrassing!
Have a good one,
Gary
Yeah, one of the biggest reasons I am considering a Brake, even with a LOT of rifle weight, is to ensure I can spot vapour Trail / spot bullet strikes. It sure makes life a bit easier when trying to sort conditions and such out.
I hear you on the shooting mat. I do use one most days, but once in a while something happens and it gets left at home or some such...
Hell, I even once forgot my dang ammo! Now that was embarrassing! Have a good one,
Gary
Pistol packer
Well-Known Member
your post is very interesting. as many posters here on this site, it is hard to get a read on your abilities and intent. your original post sounded like you wanted to save money and that you have limited experience. as i read further, you actually have considerable resources available to you and sounds like you have considerable experience also, howbeit, you might not "own" the equipment. you have done some loading and minor gunsmithing. unless you want to customize and get rid of a bad shooter, i cant for the life of me see what you would accomplish with a good rifle customizing it that severely. if i was going to customize everything, i would go with a totally customized rifle. if i was on a budget, i would get a new savage in whatever caliber i wanted as they make some pretty nice shooters right out of the box and it would be far cheaper. everyone has made great recommendations. i would steer away from the cheap barrels, as it was previously said: some are shooters some arent. pac nor, lilja, kreiger, hart, shilen are ALL shooters (very rare to find one that isnt). muzzle brake it if you dont want all the recoil. any KDF type will do (radial or modified radial) from a reputed brand and good gunsmith. one of my 300 WM Model 70 shot 3/8 in groups at a 100 and it shot exactly the same after 2 in off the barrel and a KDF installed with the same load (dont expect that as it probably cant be done again in a 1000 barrels). ANY brake will kick up dirt on a bare ground, i have tried most. use a pad or as i do-an old pair of chaps or leather (the gas goes out as a cone even from side ports). if you are prone and close enough to the ground on bare soil, you will get dirt into the optics including your god given ones. good shooting and happy trails.
