Remington VLS & VSF...big difference?

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Ramses II, Feb 11, 2005.

  1. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    I like the look of the Rem 700 VLS in .308:
    http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vls.htm

    I've noticed the VSF in .308 is more expensive:
    http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vsf.htm

    I know the VSF has a fluted barrel, HS Precision stock and aluminum bedding block. But I like the wood stock and look of the VLS. The factory site says the VLS action is "firmly bedded into the wood laminate stock." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Will I notice a big difference in accuracy between these two rifles? I'd rather go with the VLS. I just don't want to be dissapointed in performance since it doesn't have an aluminum bedding block.

    Thanks,
    Ramses II
    I Know I Ask Too Many Questions! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  2. Skinny Shooter

    Skinny Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Hey Ramses, depends on what you are looking for in the accuracy department but both factory guns should serve you well.
    I've been using a VLS in 308 for the last few years.

    This group was shot off the hood of my Blazer from a cold clean barrel. It took 2 shots to settle down. Powder was IMR 4350 and the painted circle is 3" in dia.
    [​IMG]

    Using Black Hills ammo. The black dot is .75" dia.
    [​IMG]

    I have Badger Rings and 20moa Base mounted on it.
    [​IMG]

    Recently I purchased a VSF in 308 and have switched the optics and metal over from the VLS. Just waiting till I can get to the range and shoot it. Maybe on Sunday.
    Not sure how much the fluting will help but it does look good. The palm swell on the VSF is also comfortable.
    The underside of the VLS barrel touches the stock out at the forend but it does not appear to have hurt accuracy. The VSF has room to slide a dollar bill almost down to the action.
    Current loads in the VLS are 175gr Matchkings over Varget. Gives about 2600fps. Had a nice 1/2 moa group going at 100yds last Fall until I got to shot #7&8 when I choked. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Shots 9&10 went back where they were supposed to.
    The VLS is a sharp looking gun and am going to rebarrel it into a 6mm or 6.5 caliber down the road. It's too nice to sell.

    Hey, why don't you get both? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the great info, and great pics. That's a slick VLS set up you have. Could you tell me whatya got? Rings, mount & scope. Thanks again,

    Ramses II
     
  4. Aussie

    Aussie Well-Known Member

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    Ramses ,
    Practically none of the "affordable" factory rifles have a decent bedding job when they come out of the factory gate . Given factory tolerances it is quite likely that a VSSF with bedding block will need a skim bedding job to give it's best . Mine did . The VLS would almost certainly benefit from free floating and an epoxy bedding job with pillars installed .
    Accurate shooting is about eliminating variables . Bedding is a good place to start . A good bedding job adds consistency to your results if nothing else . There's nothing worse than having to resight your rifle all the time due to poor bedding. You'll lose confidence in your ability and in the accuracy of your rifle .
    Now all my rifles get a professional bedding job before I shoot them . That's the first variable eliminated .Then I can concentrate on load development with one less nagging doubt.
    The VLS is a pretty rifle and the laminated stock should be stable enough to perform as well as the VSSF . Take it from me , HS Precision stocks ain't perfect ... but that's another story .
     
  5. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    OOps,Sorry SkinnyShooter. I see that you listed you have the badger rings and base.

    Thanks for the advice Aussie!
     
  6. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Ramses II ,do your self a favour, pickup the cheapest used remington 700 you can find at a gun show. have it worked over by a reputable rifle smith, have a custom barrel fitted and then take a look at accurate inovations stocks, there you can have the best of both worlds, a laminated or even finest grade wood, with an alloy bedding block. This route may cost you a few more $ than a standard VLS but it will be worth it in the long run. Remington have some seriouse quality control problems and with $18 barrels its lucklof the draw if you get a good one or not.
    pete
     
  7. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    Pete,
    I could just buy an action and get started. I know Brownells sells the REM 700 Short Action Receivers.

    Anybody ever hear of this:
    http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=535&type_id=955&cat=001C
    It's G&A's rifle of the year. I've never heard of a Winny Model 70 for target. I like the features, but I am skeptical because there is no reputation.

    Anybody really shoot these?
    http://www.weatherby.com/rifles/lw_svm.shtml
    Besides a high price tag, I've actually heard they don't shoot that great for the money...........
    Thanks again fellas,
    Ahh...the research continues........
    Ramses II
     
  8. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Ramses II. a mate of mine ( a Ssgt in the royal engineers) just went back to Iraq, leaving his winnie stealth with me for some work, he wants the trigger sorting out, little does he know he will come back to it bieng fully devcon bedded, probably a Lothar Walther custom barrel, teflon coated, trued and accurised,just as a personal thanks from me to him for his service over there.
    The stealth is a nice rifle, i would say it is a better out of the box rifle than a Remington 700 sedero or varmint. his is fairly accurate but does suffer from having over sized head space and a long throat, as many factory rifles do these days.
    Brownells do sell remington actions, but i am sure you can find a cheap second hand action at a gun show. You can get about as much after market stuff for a model 70 as you can a remmy 700 these days. Also take a look at savage, and www.savageshooters.com
    with ref to the weatherby rifles, in my experience thier cheapest rifle, the vanguard is by far the most accurate of all weatherby rifles, the vanguard, (aka Howa 1500) is a darn good base for a custom rifle.
    regards Pete
     
  9. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    Pete,
    You are a great friend for customizing your friend's rifle.
    What barrel makers do you recommend? (other than Lothar-Walther) Lothar-Walther may be too rich for my blood. What about E.R. Shaw and others?

    Ramses II
     
  10. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Ramses, Lothar Walther are pretty good value for money, they ain't expensive. Ive never seen an ER Shaw. you can get a shed load of good barrels in the USA. My premium choice here in Europe would be Border Barrels, they are available in the states.
    some rifle builders have preferences for one sort or another, but i figure if you get one from a well know barrel maker you will be ok.
    Pete
     
  11. targetbuster

    targetbuster Member

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    I just purchased a vls in 243win. I have been impressed so far. I finished the barrel breakin yesterday. I shot four, 3shot groups under 3/4 of an inch with Winchester Super X 100gr. power points. I want to try some 95gr ballistic tips. All I've done to the gun so far is a little trigger work. I'm going to float the barrel when I get a chance. If you like the wood go with the VLS and lighten the trigger and give it a shot. I think you will be impressed.
     
  12. craigp40

    craigp40 Well-Known Member

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    I would highly recommned the VLS. Mine is only a 223, but it is probably the most accurate rifle I own. I did adjust the trigger and float the barrel, but that was it. I considered bedding it also, but there really wasn't a need to do it. It shoots consistenly in the high 2's. As a matter of fact, 2 weekends ago I shot the best 3-shot group at 100yds I have ever done, 0.020". Will probably never happen again in my lifetime, but it sure put a grin on my face.
     
  13. sniperVLS

    sniperVLS Well-Known Member

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    got my VLS in .308 last week and shot her just this past saturday. Put 18 rounds thru her, cleaning her 3 times in between that. I am honestly skeptical about free floating the barrel, as that pressure point upfront is intentional. The accuracy I got was amazing @ 100 yards in those conditions, it liked all the ammo I used too. American Eagle 150 grain FMJ, Federal power shock soft points @ 150 grains, and Remington Core Lokt soft points @ 150 grain. All shot great, I was not expecting that at all. My rem 700 mountain rifle was picky.

    The top left grouping was the one time I oiled the barrel b4 I shot so I dont know if thats why that round went far left. It felt like a good shot until I looked back down the scope. The center high one was the very first shot I fired. I didnt touch anything on the scope, and you can see it settled down after that first one.

    The American Eagles are top left, Federals Top right, and Remingtons dead center. I shot 4 except for the American Eagles. it was 20 degrees out with a 15mph wind, I was freezing but I had to see how accurate the gun was.

    for the free floating, are you guys talking about just sanding that pressue point down? I dont know if I should bother, the thing is by far the most accurate rifle ive owned, even the trigger out of the box is to my liking. And mind you, the setup was NOT favorable, shooting off a tree I pushed over, and my trigger finger was numb most of the time. Ill add a pic of my friend shooting. Even he got cloverleafs with every grouping, and hes never shot a scoped rifle b4.

    Im actually scared to see how accurate this gun can be in normal temps with me laying down...wow.

    should I leave it? I say Yes.

    Any other opinions? Oh and I higly recommend the Super Sniper scopes. Id have to spend double or triple to get this quality from a Leupold.

    Oh, you VLS owners, do you get copper fouling the last .5" of barrel at muzzle end? I do and its a pain to remove. And its only at that spot after shooting.

    [​IMG]

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  14. craigp40

    craigp40 Well-Known Member

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    SniperVLS, if you are thoroughly happy with it, then there is really no reason to float the barrel. Mine was very accurate without it floated as well. However, I had the luxury of having a buddy with a VS stock, that holds the same action. His was floated and bedded, so before I did any work to mine, he let me try it to see how it would react. My groups shrunk by about a 1/4" (roughly 3/4 to 1/2)when using factory Win ammo. Since I primarily handload, I was able to tune it a little better to what I currently have. Floating the barrel just made it more consistent. With that heavy barrel, I can't see how floating it would hurt. Heck, I believe thier VS version is the same action and barrel, but just with a fiberglass stock. It's floated, and those are quite accurate also.