Remington 700 VSF vs Savage 10/110 Predator Hunting Max 1

[arizona mike]

This is my first post so forgive me if I screw it up. I am having trouble deciding on either a Remy 700 VSF (in 22-250) verses the Savage 10/110 (22-250) for a new coyote gun. Sure could use some practical advice from all you experts out there. The price on both rifles is very close. The Remy is a 1:14 twist, the Savage a 1:12 twist. The Remington sports a 26" barrel (the Remington is fluted), the Savage a 24" and both weigh about the same. Both have pretty decent factory triggers that are owner adjustable. I think the Savage may have the edge on a better stock due to the AccuStock bedding arrangement verses the synthetic Remington stock. I will probably just shoot factory ammo for now (thinking Hornady V-Max) as I am only set up to reload pistol rounds on a Dillion 650. Sure would be thankful for some input from hunters that have maybe used these rifles. Thanks!

Arizona Mike

 

[rscott5028]

I haven't used either one.

I prefer a faster twist than either of those for stabilizing long range high bc bullets.

But if you plan to stick with 45-55gr factory varmint loads, then either one will do the job.

I'd probably go with whichever one feels best when you shoulder it.

-- richard

 

[arizona mike]

Thanks. Yes, I have seen several posts on people using the heavier (and longer) 22-250 rounds with a higher BC. I just don't see myself needing to ever go past 250-300 yds on a coyote and am thinking a 50 gr V-max super performance round flying around 4000fps should be enough to get the job done. Seems like the hunters shooting the higher BC bullets are taking PD's at 5-600 yds, that sort of thing. Buutttt, that's why I'm here, certainly open to suggestions!!

Arizona Mike

 

[Trickymissfit]

I own a 700VS, and it's my favorite gun for off hand shooting. Yet it's nothing close to what Remington built. Mine is a 14 twist .223, and would much rather have had a 12 twist barrel. A 24" barrel is more than enough barrel for a 22-250, so don't get caught up in those old wive's tales. If you shoot off bags or somekind of a rest the Savage will be better in a varmit type stock. The Savage has a better trigger by far. I shoot model 12's and 112's in the Savages, but are still similar.

The Remington with the slower twist will have problems with some of the newer high B/C bullets. The Savage will easilly handle the Hornaday 53 grain Vmax, and a 14 twist barrel may or may not (pretty iffy). The Remington neck and throat are usually much longer than the Savages if that matters a lot. I like the Accublock bedding system better than the Remington. The Remington will be lighter as a rule. As a rule the Savage will shoot tighter groups, but that also has a lot to do with the shooter
gary

 

[backwoods83]

I have a model 10 max 1 22-250, it will eat anything up to 64grn berger fb, when I first got it, I couldn't get my hands on any norma or lapua brass, so I went to walmart and bought 3 boxes of the 40ct usa 45grn hollow points, at 28 a box you can't beat em, if you can do your part you can sit there all day with those rounds and shoot as many as you want and go and cover the whole group with a quarter when you are done. I got the guy I bought it from to through a box of 55grn hornadys in with the rifle, they shot good, but not as good. That model 10 is the most accurate rifle I have that's under twelve pounds with scope and bipod. I can't help on the remington as I have never owned that model.

 

[arizona mike]

The Savage is a medium contour barrel with a sporter style stock. I think I am leaning towards the 1;12 twist rate, as you say, it will have more ammo versitility than the remington guns. I would be shooting it off a harris bipod (13'-27"), from a sitting position, my usual set up for predator hunting. The Remington stock has no bedding system whatsoever, just the basic two screws from the trigger guard up into the synthetic stock, the usual (and lacking) Remington fare. The problem with most of the current crop of reasonably priced rifles with synthetic stocks is the plastic, no fiberglass or anything to stiffen them up in the fore end. When you turn a bipod mounted rifle in the dirt (to follow a moving target for example) on one of these cheap synthetics, the stock just flexes right up against the barrel and can cause erractic shots. I am thinking the Savage stock may avoid that problem, although the stock on the Remy VSF is stiffer than most. The weird thing is, I tock the stock off the Remington at the gun store, (pretty cool shop to let me do this) and at the very end of the fore end actually supporting the barrel (if you can believe it) are two tabs moulded into the stock that the barrel rides on. This goes against everything I have ever known about accuracy, but Remington claims in their advertising that this is their most accurate line of rifles! Maybe the Remington "scientists" have discovered someting new that heretofore has been undiscovered!? Wondering if anyone knows anything about how or why these barrel supporting tabs should work?

Chances are, the Savage is already free floated in addition to their unique beddng system, something Remington has never seemed to get. Am hoping to hear from someone that shoots a Predator/Hunter model with the accustock system to see if the think the foreend is stiff enough to handle a bipod without effecting repeatability. Thanks for your help!

Arizona Mike

 

[arizona mike]

Thanks for the tip on the ammo, have never heard of the 40 gr "USA" what are those exactly? If they shoot better than the Hornady's and I can buy then at Walmart, that would be a great deal! Glad to hear that your Model 10 Max 1 is such a shooter, that's getting me "warm under the collar" for the Savage!!

Arizona Mike

 

[backwoods83]

I will say that the savage is completely free floating. Mine is fluted and tapers to .745". The two notches in the remington stock is nothing special, i have and sps and a sps buckmaster that had them, no science to it.

 

[backwoods83]

Mike, to answer your last question they are just 45 grain flat base hollow points loaded by winchester, they come in 40 count boxes and are 27.97 at my local walmart. On a decent day they would stay under moa to 300yrds, with the right conditions, likely under minute of coyote to 400+.

 

[rscott5028]

Here's my general theory on the pressure point...

Most folks like to see a "good fit and finish." A large gap between the barrel and stock is percieved to be not such a good fit and finish.

Many manufacturers are eager to crank out more volume at better margins. Thus, tupperware stocks or wood stocks that aren't so well cured are common.

As such, creating a specific pressure point near the fore end is better than having a random pressure point.

Free floating works with better quality materials and workmanship.

Or, as backwoods said... No real science

-- richard

 

[arizona mike]

Thanks "Backwoods", I will look for those Winchesters at my local Walmarts out here and give then a try. I am curious if you left the pressure point tabs in the fore ends of the two 700's you mentioned, or did you sand them out to free up the barrel, and if so, did they shoot better after that?? What calibers were they?

What RScott said makes sense about peoples perceptions based on the look of the fit at the fore end, I had never considered that particular "slant" on the issue. What a crazy world! You are right I think, many buy based on the "eye candy" value rather than accuracy basics of a rifle. I mean, if it really works, well OK, but I have to believe taking anything out that is touching or otherwise supporting the barrel is going to let a gun shoot to its full potential. Once again, this is being really helpful understand which way to go.........I'm leaning very heavily toward the Savage purchase.

As a "sidebar", I was reading on another post that someone with some insight realized that the Remington executives in the suits were really caught up in all the internal politics of the company, thus it was extremely hard to get things done there, make progress, etc. Conversely, the Savage executives are always out with various gun clubs shooting, competing and trying to get feedback on what customers want. I think it's working.

Arizona Mike

 

[backwoods83]

Mike my sps buckmaster 243 turned into a full custom 6.5x284, and my sps 300wsm went freefloat and bedded in a boyds thumbhole with a custom brake and jewell trigger, so idk if it helps. I did remove the notches on a friends vtr but I also bedded it and that combo did help. And yes, savage is trying very hard to meet all needs/wants, I don't think remington cares much anymore.

 

[arizona mike]

Backwoods, nice job on those two Remingtons, you had me worried there for a moment! Sounds like you got a couple of real shooters there and a lot of experience to go with them. Thanks very much for your feedback, really helpful stuff! I am "soaking it up" and trying to learn from guys like you!

 

[rscott5028]

There was no pressure point at the fore end of my Sendero.

...except for the sling stud protruding too far and rubbing the barrel. But, that was just sloppy and was easily fixed with a dremmel.

It's also an HS stock with aluminum bedding block. So, it's plenty stiff to free float.

-- richard