Reloader 26 in 6.5 creedmoor

[Prieto9000]

I just tried RL-26 on my Creed with very promising results.
Hornady case
Hornady 147 ELD-M
CCI 200
47.5gr RL-26

Lower group is a 6 shot group with the magneto speed attached to the barrel, upper group is a 3 shot group, no magneto.

 

[codyadams]

Just wanted to add an update in reference to the small rifle primer brass and reloder 26. I am using a .260 AI, so close but a little different.

I tested using 49.5 grains Reloder 26, 147 ELD-M seated .010" off, COAL of 2.920", and peterson formed SRP brass. Using Federal small rifle match primers, my e.s. was 24 fps, and .75" 5 shot group. Using cci 450 (small rifle magnum) primers, my e.s. was 21 fps, 1" 5 shot group. Using cci br-4 primers however, my e.s. was 9 fps with an s.d. of 3.8 fps, sub half MOA 5 shot group with 4 going into a .2" group and one that I believe I pulled, and avg velocity was 3040 fps. So I am having no issues with the slow burning powder in a .260 AI and peterson SRP brass. The flashole is small as well, I had to switch to a small decapping pin as the flash hole is .060" diameter.

So I am not exactly sure what is causing some people issues getting low e.s. with the SRP brass and Reloder 26.....I have even higher capacity than the creed and no issues. Interesting.

 

[codyadams]

What are y'all running as your temp sensitivity factor % for RL26?

I did a write up on it, and saw very little temp sensitivity at the temps I ran them at, I'll post a link at the bottom.

The only things I didn't do was have the rifle at the same temp as the ammo, it was ambient temp. Also, I have heard many people state that 80° and above is where Reloder 26 startes to spike in pressure. I rarely shoot when it's that hot here in Wyoming, and times I have, I personally haven't seen it, but some say they have, so keep that in mind.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/temperature-sensitivity-of-alliant-reloder-26.187256/

 

[DMP25-06]

That will work

Hello Bowfishn ,

I went to the range yesterday , 05-27-2018 , and ran velocity tests on 6.5 CM loads with Hornady 147 gr. ELD-M . Air temperature was 85 degrees F. , Elevation is 800' above sea level .
Results are as follows :
All velocities measured with a Magnetospeed V1

Hornady factory 147 gr. ELD-M ammo - 2707 FPS average , out of 28" barrel , factory Ruger M77 Hawkeye Heavy Varmint / Target rifle .

Test loadings of 147 gr. ELD-M bullets , Peterson brass , Fed. 215 Match primers , cartridge O.A.L. = 2.865" , Hodgdon H4350 powder are as follows , as per your Quickload chart that you posted for me with 51.0 gr. H2O capacity .

Results are as follows :
38.4 gr H4350 = 2480 fps
Skip to 39.0 gr. = 2522 fps
39.2 gr. = 2522 fps
39.4 gr. =2535 fps
39.6 gr. = 2573 fps
40.0 gr. = 2561 fps
40.8 gr = 2613 fps
continuing on at .2 gr. intervals , watching for pressure indicators , I reached your maximum posted loading of 42.2 gr. H4350 at 2704 fps .

No hard bolt lift on any of the cartridges fired , whether factory ammo , or hand loads .
No flattened primers , however ALL of the cartridges fired , both factory ammo and hand loads , have shown slight cratering of the primer , at the firing pin strike point , which is and has always been off-center on all cartridges fired in this rifle . Even the loadings that chronographed 2480 fps had this cratering of the primer . I think that perhaps the firing pin opening in the bolt face may be slightly enlarged ( This occurred on a Rem. Model 700 , on a different occasion , and changing the bolt remedied that situation ) , although I have not measured the opening , to compare it to my other Ruger M77 , in .220 Swift chambering , which has never shown any cases with cratered primers .

I measured the dimensions of the brass , after having been fired , and those measurements are as follows :
Hornady brass New loaded cartridge :
Base diameter = .468"
Case body / shoulder junction = .457"
Case body above extractor groove = .467"
Neck diameter = .292"

Hornady cases after firing :
Base diameter =.468"
Diameter at cartridge body/ shoulder junction = .4645"
Diameter at case body above extractor groove = .4705"
Neck diameter = .297"

Peterson brass cases after firing :
Base diameter = .468"
Diameter at cartridge body / shoulder junction = .4645"
Diameter at case body above extractor groove = .471"
Neck diameter = .297"

Are these dimensions somewhat larger than normal chamber dimension specifications ?
Also , ALL fired cases are not perfectly round at the case body ,measuring slightly ellliptical , at .470" - .471"when turning them inside the jaws of my calipers .

I cleaned as much powder residue as possible from inside a fired Peterson cartridge case and then weighed it , which showed to be 175.2 gr. empty weight , and then filled with water to measure the volume of the fired case . Filled with water , it weighed 226.8 gr. , showing a fill volume of 51.6 gr H2O .
Would Neck-sizing only make any difference in SAFE volume of powder loaded into these cases , in hopes of somewhat higher velocity ?

Final question : could the Magnetospeed be incorrect ? Although the measured velocities for my .308 Win. , when entered into my Sig Kilo 2400 , are normally very close on the MOA of bullet drop shown for various ranges .

As always , thank you for your help , and any recommendations that you might offer .
DMP25-06

 

[Bowfishn]

It appears that your barrel is slower than most 28" barrels, as Hornady shows their factory 147 ELD-M @ 2695 with a 24" barrel, you only got 2707 average with a 28" barrel. should have seen 50 to 100 fps faster with your barrel.
Slow barrel for what ever reason is most likely seeing lower pressures. If it was me I would continue to increase at .2 gr jumps 5 at a time up to the 2750 fps checking for pressure indicators. 2750 fps should still be less than 60K pressure. Remember if you change lot # on powder start down low and compare it with previous recorded velocities.
Your Magneto speed could be reading wrong but I doubt it, according to your drop indications.

 

[Capt RB]

You can try wolf primers they have a much harder cup and should slow down your cratering. 4350 works much better with a non magnum primer as well. The non round fired cases may indicate an out of round chamber. Cerrosafe the chamber and see if in fact that is the case. Rifleshooter.com did a barrel length test and h4350 showed that 24" was no slower than a 27" for 142 class bullets. An indication the pressure curve is not optimized.

 

[Bowfishn]

I believe the Test that you are talking about is flawed as they started with a brand new un fired barrel, shoot 10 and cut, shoot 10 and cut, shoot 10 and cut. The barrel would speed up as the test went on giving the indication that the longer barrel was not any faster than the shorter.
There have been many other tests done (if you do a search) using a barrel that had over a thousand rounds through them starting with 28" and cutting down to about 20" that show 25 fps average holds true.
My 24" barrel shoots at almost exactly 50 fps slower than my 26" barrel shoots with all rounds I have tested.

 

[coop2564]

I did a write up on it, and saw very little temp sensitivity at the temps I ran them at, I'll post a link at the bottom.

The only things I didn't do was have the rifle at the same temp as the ammo, it was ambient temp. Also, I have heard many people state that 80° and above is where Reloder 26 startes to spike in pressure. I rarely shoot when it's that hot here in Wyoming, and times I have, I personally haven't seen it, but some say they have, so keep that in mind.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/temperature-sensitivity-of-alliant-reloder-26.187256/

I've shot several times now with it over 100 degrees. I've not had any pressure spikes. At 70 degrees I avg 2846fps with my 22" barrel at 101 degrees 2875 at 47gr.

 

[codyadams]

I've shot several times now with it over 100 degrees. I've not had any pressure spikes. At 70 degrees I avg 2846fps with my 22" barrel at 101 degrees 2875 at 47gr.

Ya, as I said I haven't seen it myself in my rifles when shooting over 80°, I just didn't want to discredit those who have seen it. It may have to do with case capacity, how hot your load is, or many, many other variables.

 

[coop2564]

My ES is much better in hot (6) weather vs (21) cold. Also used QL to figure my SAAMI pressure at highest temp I thought I would hunt in, which was 100. I'm sure if some worked up max load at 40 then shoot at 90 they would see some issues.

 

[Capt RB]

I believe the Test that you are talking about is flawed as they started with a brand new un fired barrel, shoot 10 and cut, shoot 10 and cut, shoot 10 and cut. The barrel would speed up as the test went on giving the indication that the longer barrel was not any faster than the shorter.
There have been many other tests done (if you do a search) using a barrel that had over a thousand rounds through them starting with 28" and cutting down to about 20" that show 25 fps average holds true.
My 24" barrel shoots at almost exactly 50 fps slower than my 26" barrel shoots with all rounds I have tested.

I've seen step lapped barrels 22" shoot much higher velocities as the same brand@ 26 without the lapping process. I understand what your saying however I feel that even though it will get faster it will not get 75fps faster in 30 shots. I've tested 4350 in my 24 and a customer's 26" savage with negligible differences in velocities. Rl26 was quite different. We saw 91fps difference and where mine would show an ejector mark his would shoot that velocity .7-.9 grains less(I gave my book on that rifle to it's new owner) I would encourage the poster to try 4955 with the 147 if he wants a cleaner burning powder than rl 26. Not quite as good velocities however it showed alot of promise in the ladder with 142's and would benefit with the longer barrel more than h4350. Rl16 shot faster than 4350 for me but it would not group or come in with sd's below about 20 much above 2725. I didn't shoot anything in the creed above 53/cloudy. I only had 2 range days above 35 most were below 25degrees.

 

[DMP25-06]

It appears that your barrel is slower than most 28" barrels, as Hornady shows their factory 147 ELD-M @ 2695 with a 24" barrel, you only got 2707 average with a 28" barrel. should have seen 50 to 100 fps faster with your barrel.
Slow barrel for what ever reason is most likely seeing lower pressures. If it was me I would continue to increase at .2 gr jumps 5 at a time up to the 2750 fps checking for pressure indicators. 2750 fps should still be less than 60K pressure. Remember if you change lot # on powder start down low and compare it with previous recorded velocities.
Your Magneto speed could be reading wrong but I doubt it, according to your drop indications.

Hello Bowfishn ,

Thank you for your prompt response and valued advice that you have offered to me .
Please correct me if I am wrong in my next assumption , and question .
If I am correct in my measurements of my fired cartridge cases that have enlarged to nearly chamber dimensions ( after shrinking slightly after firing and cool-down ) , and having the internal volume increased by 0.6 gr of H2O , would my cartridges be more efficient with neck-sizing only . My logic , or maybe lack of logic , has me thinking that a full-length sized case is potentially loosing some of it's pressure as the case expands to the internal dimensions of my rifle's chamber ( which seems slightly over-size , by measurements of fired cases ) . Therefore , would not a neck-sized only case become more efficient , due to less expansion , in addition to the obvious fact of the ability to hold a larger volume of powder ?


Thank You , and others that are offering their advice .
DMP25-06

 

[Bowfishn]

I would continue testing without changing sizing methods. For what ever reason your barrel has less resistance than some like running coated bullets it shoots slower but at less pressure so I believe you can increase powder charge as I listed above, just take it slow and check for pressure signs.
There is a guy Rob01 on other forums who I believe is a Hornady factory sponsored shooter, he has a 28" barrel and 27" barrel. He uses Hornady brass and H4350 powder here is a quote from a post he made in February 2017.
" As an example the same lot of factory 140 ELD that is 2880fps in my 28" barrel is 2825fps in my 27". 55fps is a good amount of velocity. Handloading I am running the 140s at 2850fps and the 147s at 2825fps in my 27"
Do a search on Rob01 and check out some of his info.

 

[Bowfishn]

Also here is some info on barrel length, the guy used a 7.62x54 .
http://honors.usf.edu/documents/Thesis/U82488180.pdf