Recommend me a scope with less than 20x

[Technologist]

Hello,

I want to buy me a scope to last me a long time. I want to learn how to work a scope with a range finding reticle and precision shooting mainly from the prone position w bipod. Most of my shooting is either hunting shots well below 500 yards or practicing for that kind of shooting. A lot of my hunting is done at dawn, dusk or in moonlight, so I need the scope to have great glass and a huge objective lens. Night time illumination is a plus. Ie it must not be too strong and blind me, as many scopes not centered on hunting do.

As I want to learn how to work a tactical scope and I want to have the capability to get into some kind of competitive shooting, I need the scope to be ffp and mil/mil. Preferably with a reticle like the msr. Budget: 2500 USD maximum, but I'd be. Happy to spend less.

My first thoughts have circled around the kahles k624i. It seems to have everything and then some. My main source of doubt is that the reticle seem to be optimized for the higher end of the magnification spectrum. I don't think I'll have much practical use for 24x and I don't want to find that I don't have much use for my new expensive scope either, because it's a 6-24x scope with a ffp reticle and super thin lines.

Next up is the k312, but I feel there's a risk that my shooting might outgrow the 12x. Not sure thats not just mind bugs, though, but I'm actively searching for training and introduction to psr-like stuff and I don't want to be outglassed after spending over 2000 bucks on a scope.

So what's out there in a format like 4-16x or 5-15x or 4,5-18x with a 50 mm plus lens, a nice modern reticle and mil adjustments?

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Here you go. These scopes have 100% reliable tracking and are used by the military on the M40 and M24 series rifles. If you want an even tougher scope get their fixed 10x or 12x.


https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-3-15x42-tactical-rifle-scope-3.html

Edit: has everything you want minus the 50 mm glass. You can get the HD (high density) version for $1200 which could help with a better, clearer image.

 

[86alaskan]

Well, for the upper range, maybe a Nightforce ATACR F1 4-16. comes in FFP has some pretty good reticles including H59 Horus and TREMOR. Seems like it would be a pretty good fit for what you described.

 

[THEIS]

Here you go. These scopes have 100% reliable tracking and are used by the military on the M40 and M24 series rifles. If you want an even tougher scope get their fixed 10x or 12x.

https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-3-15x42-tactical-rifle-scope-3.html

Hello,

I have never seen that scope on any "sanctioned" military issued M40 series rifle, M24 series rifle or any Mk series rifle.
Have you ever seen any military armory issue a SWS with that scope?

The M40 series have/are issued with the following optics:
The M40A1 was issued with Redfield 3-9x then it was replaced with Unertl 10x
The M40A3 was issued with the Unertl 10x with US Optics upgrade then it was replaced with S&B 3-12x
The M40A5 was issued with the S&B 3-12x PMII LP

The M24 have/are issued with Leupold Ulta M3A then it was replaced with Leupold Mk4 LR/T M1.

The Mk SWS from USN have/are issued with NXS scopes for the most part but certain units are running S&Bs due to their "independent" budgets.

You can search the FBO.gov website and see that SWFA has NEVER been awarded any sniper rifle optics tender..EVER

THEIS

 

[Technologist]

Thank you all for your input, but I don't think I'm going for less than 50 mm in the objective lens. When im shooting using only the light from the night sky, I want that objective to be large.

The atacr is an interesting one though, as it has a 50 mm version that goes only to 20x

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Hello,

I have never seen that scope on any "sanctioned" military issued M40 series rifle, M24 series rifle or any Mk series rifle.
Have you ever seen any military armory issue a SWS with that scope?

The M40 series have/are issued with the following optics:
The M40A1 was issued with Redfield 3-9x then it was replaced with Unertl 10x
The M40A3 was issued with the Unertl 10x with US Optics upgrade then it was replaced with S&B 3-12x
The M40A5 was issued with the S&B 3-12x PMII LP

The M24 have/are issued with Leupold Ulta M3A then it was replaced with Leupold Mk4 LR/T M1.

The Mk SWS from USN have/are issued with NXS scopes for the most part but certain units are running S&Bs due to their "independent" budgets.

You can search the FBO.gov website and see that SWFA has NEVER been awarded any sniper rifle optics tender..EVER

THEIS

Sorry, I should have been more specific, Tasco originally developed the fixed 10x for the navy in 1994. After testing they were awarded a contract in 1997. They have been used on the M24 and M40 in Afghanistan, since I have seen them personally from snipers supporting my platoon in Helmand and Farrah province in Afghanistan. (Maybe the fixed 10x was a legacy scope not replaced by the luepolds?) SWFA purchased the rights to the scope from tasco (unsure of when) and starting further developing it into the scopes line we have today.

The scopes I've seen have NSNs so they are DOD items. So yes you're correct, not directly from swfa, and definitely not the variable scope, but the origins of the fixed 10x scope have DOD approval for toughness and reliability.

OP sorry to digress. It's just a real solid scope is all. That the point I'm trying to make. I understand now that it doesn't fit your requirements.

 

[dsculley]

To the OP, I can recommend without reservation the Burris XTR II line of scopes. These are FFP, have extremely good glass, a 34mm tube, a ton of vertical adjustment and you can get Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. Based on your post, either the 3 - 15 or 4 - 20 would work for you. I have the 4 - 20 and love it. I got mine from SportOptics.com and their service was great. You can get either one of these scopes for under $1,000.00 and Burris currently has a $100.00 rebate.

Burris and Steiner are now owned by the same parent corporation and it seems Burris has benefited from this. From what I have seen, you can spend a lot more money and not have a better scope. These scopes have a zero stop, illuminated reticle with a lot of brightness adjustment, comes with flip caps and a shade tube. The turrets have a nice solid click and feel, they have been very accurate and repeatable. They do offer the Horus reticle, but I opted for the SCR and I think it is a good choice. If you are shooting a rifle that you can keep on target during recoil, you might benefit from the Horus. I have no problem spotting my shots when shooting past 5 - 600 yds and making adjustments with the SCR reticle.

You can get the Burris picatinny base and the Signature XTR rings to complete the package. With the Signature XTR rings, there are inserts that you can use for additional elevation in lieu of a 20 MOA base. A side benefit is the inserts won't mar the finish of the scope.

FWIW

 

[Deleted member 48126]

To the OP, I can recommend without reservation the Burris XTR II line of scopes. These are FFP, have extremely good glass, a 34mm tube, a ton of vertical adjustment and you can get Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. Based on your post, either the 3 - 15 or 4 - 20 would work for you. I have the 4 - 20 and love it. I got mine from SportOptics.com and their service was great. You can get either one of these scopes for under $1,000.00 and Burris currently has a $100.00 rebate.

Burris and Steiner are now owned by the same parent corporation and it seems Burris has benefited from this. From what I have seen, you can spend a lot more money and not have a better scope. These scopes have a zero stop, illuminated reticle with a lot of brightness adjustment, comes with flip caps and a shade tube. The turrets have a nice solid click and feel, they have been very accurate and repeatable. They do offer the Horus reticle, but I opted for the SCR and I think it is a good choice. If you are shooting a rifle that you can keep on target during recoil, you might benefit from the Horus. I have no problem spotting my shots when shooting past 5 - 600 yds and making adjustments with the SCR reticle.

You can get the Burris picatinny base and the Signature XTR rings to complete the package. With the Signature XTR rings, there are inserts that you can use for additional elevation in lieu of a 20 MOA base. A side benefit is the inserts won't mar the finish of the scope.

FWIW

My close friend uses the Burris XTR 5-20 on his defiance 6.5 creedmore for PRS and absolutely loves it. His is MIL/MIL. He's had zero issues with tracking and he really cranks on the turrets.

 

[Technologist]

Thank you for your recommendation! I'm keeping that in mind, but yesterday I found a good deal on a 5x25 s&b pm2 with the illuminated P4L. I kind of don't worry so much about the high magnification anymore, but I'm torn between the pm2 and the kahles k624i. I do not have an opportunity to look through the kahles.

Are the pm2 and the k624i equals?

 

[Deleted member 48126]

You're getting into the elite level of scopes there. You're getting to the point of diminishing returns for the price. If you got either of those scopes I think you'll be happy, and wouldn't be able to tell a difference in quality.

 

[Never ffp]

Get yourself a leupold VX5 HD 3x15x56 firedot and thank me later .Awsome Glass

 

[dfanonymous]

Sorry, I should have been more specific, Tasco originally developed the fixed 10x for the navy in 1994. After testing they were awarded a contract in 1997. They have been used on the M24 and M40 in Afghanistan, since I have seen them personally from snipers supporting my platoon in Helmand and Farrah province in Afghanistan. (Maybe the fixed 10x was a legacy scope not replaced by the luepolds?) SWFA purchased the rights to the scope from tasco (unsure of when) and starting further developing it into the scopes line we have today.

The scopes I've seen have NSNs so they are DOD items. So yes you're correct, not directly from swfa, and definitely not the variable scope, but the origins of the fixed 10x scope have DOD approval for toughness and reliability.

OP sorry to digress. It's just a real solid scope is all. That the point I'm trying to make. I understand now that it doesn't fit your requirements.

That was a contract for NSW team guys in the mid 90's. As far as I know, it was used as a DMR item (I'll get to the details). So unless your a SEAL and was in afghan in the mid 90's you haven't seen them on anything. Also unless you were in the Marines with a STA platoon, you wont be seeing too many M40's...and they have the S&B PM2 or Premier on them (see THEIS post) and if you were in the Army infantry type ordeal with BS4 designated doods will be about the only time you would see the M24 a3 or e1 variant...maybe.

The SWFA type scopes SEALs used was for the M25's. NSW replaced them soon after with the stupid *** MK4's. The Army was rolling with Bausch and Lomb I think.
It had a short career. To bad those m14's didnt have a short career as well.

Now supply and ordering. The military trying to standardize something requires certain hoops to jump through, however individual units, expecially with the right justification, and the funding of a tier 2 SOCOM unit, can get about anything they think will work with the right paperwork. Don't even need to use GSA.

I'm half way about checking vb.socom.mil emails and verifying all the JSOC, SOCOM and military war heros on here and making calls to verify. Does every support/super POG think they can get away with saying **** and think that other people aren't going to know about?

 

[WRO]

Id look at the x5 3.5x18, great glass, reliable turrets, weights not to bad. The other one I would look at is the z8i 2x16 x 50 or the 2.3 x 18 by 56, you will not find a scope with better glass. It'll do 7 mils on the turret which will get you close to 1k with a lot of calibers.

 

[RedSnake]

Burris xtr ii 3-18 mil/mil. A lot of scope for the money.

If money is no object, Tangent Theta.