Radical difference between Nosler 210 Gr Long Range and Hornady 208 Gr ELD-M

Les in Wyoming

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Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
118
Location
Glenrock, Wyoming
For my 300 WM, my load has been 77.5 gr of H1000 behind a 208 ELD-M. Now that my rifle is glass bedded, it is shooting better. But I cannot get any more Hornady bullets. So I thought I bought 2 boxes of 210 gr. Nosler Acubond Long range (ABLR). Only 2 grain difference in weight, but the ABLR has an even higher BC of 730. Hornady is 690. So, I loaded up some using the exact same load and exact same seating depth. Cartridge Base To Ogive measurement is 3.920 on both using my comparator.

First pic is Hornady 208 Gr with virtually 0 neck tension. It is a 5-shot group and is the best I have ever shot with this rifle. The second pic is same load, same bullet with about .002-003 neck tension. Again, it is a good sub-moa group. The 3rd pic is the exact same load, same neck tension (.002) and same seating depth. It is WAY all over the place. Another group was also as bad.

I need to know what to do? Do I experiment with charge or seating depth? Since I am measuring to the ogive, why would seating depth be different? I would appreciate any input or suggestions. Thanks

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Jud96

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Jun 30, 2013
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3,022
Location
Michigan
It could be a lot of things. When switching a bullet you need to rework up the load. Just because both rounds have the same cartridge base to ogive doesn’t mean they’re the same distance to the lands. Also, using the same powder charge just because they’re close in weight isn’t the safest thing to do. I would drop down a couple grains, work up your powder charge and adjust seating depth. It’s wise to work up a load for every new bullet you use.
 

Ol' Red

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Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
527
Location
Wyoming
i

I am using a Hornady bullet comparator. I don't remember what the actual OAL is, but this works out to being .021 from jam. I am going to try to go backward. I don't know where to start, but I don't want to shoot 100 bullets in finding it.
New bullet requires a new start. I have one rifle load that I can interchange two different bullets with the same load, but that is not typical. Other guns won't shoot the same powder well when I change bullets.
 

MagnumManiac

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Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
3,155
I have no problem with the 210gr ABLR in 3 of my 300WM’s. All 3 will produce itty bitty little groups. Distance from lands and powders/charges also differ between them.
My best outcome has been with RETUMBO, then equally H1000 or RE25.
I do not find the temp swings that you guys in the US experience, so I do not see any temp sensitivity with RE25. In fact, I find it extremely accurate across a wide range of cartridges I use.
Anyway, the ABLR requires some seating depth testing, and yes, I have seen some fliers, but nothing drastic enough not to use them. An inch here or there is NOTHING to worry about in a HUNTING rifle, even at extreme ranges.

Cheers.
 

Radman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
214
Location
TN
For my 300 WM, my load has been 77.5 gr of H1000 behind a 208 ELD-M. Now that my rifle is glass bedded, it is shooting better. But I cannot get any more Hornady bullets. So I thought I bought 2 boxes of 210 gr. Nosler Acubond Long range (ABLR). Only 2 grain difference in weight, but the ABLR has an even higher BC of 730. Hornady is 690. So, I loaded up some using the exact same load and exact same seating depth. Cartridge Base To Ogive measurement is 3.920 on both using my comparator.

First pic is Hornady 208 Gr with virtually 0 neck tension. It is a 5-shot group and is the best I have ever shot with this rifle. The second pic is same load, same bullet with about .002-003 neck tension. Again, it is a good sub-moa group. The 3rd pic is the exact same load, same neck tension (.002) and same seating depth. It is WAY all over the place. Another group was also as bad.

I need to know what to do? Do I experiment with charge or seating depth? Since I am measuring to the ogive, why would seating depth be different? I would appreciate any input or suggestions. Thanks

View attachment 236428View attachment 236429View attachment 236430
One very obvious point made in everyone's reply is what we've all come to learn is that EVERYTHING MATTERS. Or, as one ammo manufacture also alluded to, "Two identical rifles made the same day on the same assembly line may shoot totally different or prefer different ammos."
 

liv4thehunt

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Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
78
The ablr’s don’t like being near the lands. That being said I have only had two guns that will shoot them well. I have tried almost every ablr, and they are very frustrating to load for. Almost every gun will shoot 2 thru one hole and then always a flyer. Those same guns will all shoot sub half moa with Berger’s, SMK’s, and Hornady’s.
 

itchytriggerfinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
60
It could be a lot of things. When switching a bullet you need to rework up the load. Just because both rounds have the same cartridge base to ogive doesn’t mean they’re the same distance to the lands. Also, using the same powder charge just because they’re close in weight isn’t the safest thing to do. I would drop down a couple grains, work up your powder charge and adjust seating depth. It’s wise to work up a load for every new bullet you use.
Jud96,
I agree with your entire statement with the exception of the part about “just because both rounds have the same CBTO doesn’t mean they’re the same distance to the lands”
Isn’t this exactly what this means? Am I missing something? I thought the whole point of measuring the ogive was to measure the relationship between the bullets first point of contact and the lands.
Am I wrong about this?
Just to be clear, I am not being critical, I am sincerely confused about that statement and would like to understand what you mean.
Thanks,
Jim
 

VLD Pilot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
1,790
Location
Northern, Mi
For my 300 WM, my load has been 77.5 gr of H1000 behind a 208 ELD-M. Now that my rifle is glass bedded, it is shooting better. But I cannot get any more Hornady bullets. So I thought I bought 2 boxes of 210 gr. Nosler Acubond Long range (ABLR). Only 2 grain difference in weight, but the ABLR has an even higher BC of 730. Hornady is 690. So, I loaded up some using the exact same load and exact same seating depth. Cartridge Base To Ogive measurement is 3.920 on both using my comparator.

First pic is Hornady 208 Gr with virtually 0 neck tension. It is a 5-shot group and is the best I have ever shot with this rifle. The second pic is same load, same bullet with about .002-003 neck tension. Again, it is a good sub-moa group. The 3rd pic is the exact same load, same neck tension (.002) and same seating depth. It is WAY all over the place. Another group was also as bad.

I need to know what to do? Do I experiment with charge or seating depth? Since I am measuring to the ogive, why would seating depth be different? I would appreciate any input or suggestions. Thanks

View attachment 236428View attachment 236429View attachment 236430
It's my experience that Hornady bullets are just not picky. They shoot well regardless of neck tension and jump. Nosler isn't the same bullet. You'll find accuracy with time and range work. I'd also be a bit skeptical about the Nosler BC numbers. They are famous for inflating that number where Hornady has an accurate number much more often. I'd say based on accuracy right now, Hornady is your bullet...IF you can find any.
 
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