Quarter bore fans; opinions wanted, what would you do?

[std7mag]

If you're looking to go all in, I'd go with the 6.53 (257) Lazzeroni Scramjet.

Lazzeroni is currently selling their ammo loaded with the 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip for $99.
So it's within the realm of Weatherby loaded ammo.

Just faster. Lol

But i would recommend a large shank action and barrel.
Lazzeroni actually did testing for a couple of their cartridges with the large shank Savage.
They went high enough in pressure to permanently deform the chamber, but action was still usable.

 

[Calvin45]

You are correct; there are many ways to push the envelope. Thanks to the availability of faster twist barrels and the willingness of bullet manufacturers to help us do so. Because this is LRH, I prefer the heavier bullet option and push the envelope. @Bghunter338 and I have been sharing information in our load development with the 145 BH and 163 Chinchaga and have learned a lot from them. The scary part is that I am already thinking about future alternatives and possibilities. I have not yet explored its full potential - I am just building a knowledge base.

For instance, with the 145 BH at 3200 FPS .371 (G7), at my altitude:

900Y = 2225 FPS/1594 FT-LBS - not shabby from a 22" barrel.

"If" I opt for a 30" barrel and the ~25 FPS rule (WAG) applies, I'll gain ~200 FPS.

1100Y = 2194 FPS/1550 FT-LBS.

In short, it boils down to preference and intended purpose. IMHO, the heavy/high BC bullets are a game changer, especially for a .25 cal. I was neither a .25 cal nor WBY fan before, but they changed my perspective. Cheers!

If I had the twist rate I'd experiment with heavies too, the 134 eld m seems like a winner.

But as is, I'm sticking to the original 25 cal magnum idea which isn't a true "long range" set up but an intermediate range hold-on-hair lazer beam. Anything farther than 500-600 yards I'm boring and just shoot a 300 win mag with 225 eld m. Thumps harder haha, and still my all time favourite cartridge if I had to be with but one hunting rifle it'd be a .300 win mag.


But this rig is probably gonna be the opposite, Shooting light weight monos at just unbelievable speed, understanding that they slow down in a hurry too and don't buck the wind the same, but even so there's something about bowstring trajectory to the far end of normal hunting distances that speaks to me and there's also something about the terminal effectiveness of lower sectional density copper monos at warp speed as well.


I have some 75 and 90 hammers (know you're not a fan, not trying to convert anyone here ) and might also grab a pack or two of the Barnes 80 grain TTSX

 

[FEENIX]

If I had the twist rate I'd experiment with heavies too, the 134 eld m seems like a winner.

But as is, I'm sticking to the original 25 cal magnum idea which isn't a true "long range" set up but an intermediate range hold-on-hair lazer beam. Anything farther than 500-600 yards I'm boring and just shoot a 300 win mag with 225 eld m. Thumps harder haha, and still my all time favourite cartridge if I had to be with but one hunting rifle it'd be a .300 win mag.


But this rig is probably gonna be the opposite, Shooting light weight monos at just unbelievable speed, understanding that they slow down in a hurry too and don't buck the wind the same, but even so there's something about bowstring trajectory to the far end of normal hunting distances that speaks to me and there's also something about the terminal effectiveness of lower sectional density copper monos at warp speed as well.


I have some 75 and 90 hammers (know you're not a fan, not trying to convert anyone here ) and might also grab a pack or two of the Barnes 80 grain TTSX

That's why I did not make any recommendations. IIWY, I'd use the remaining life of the barrel and experiment with it. When it is due for re-barrel, go crazy with it.

BTW, I have 3 .300 WMs and remains my go-to chambering from antelope to elk size game up to 1000Y.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I have to wonder, why did Berger and (gulp) Hornady stop at 134/135gr .257 bullets, and not go larger?
Even in .264 they don't exceed 156grs I don't think.?

Berger has made a HUGE contribution to precision shooting by focusing on heavy for caliber bullets. Their chosen offerings aren't exactly a wild stab either. We know how long Berger has been in this game. They have VALID reasons for choosing what they offer, one being practical twist rates/bullet stability surely.

Calvin, like you I employ 257 for what it is. The finest offering of dual purpose effectivness. So much **** fun.! 75-135grs covers a lot of needs and it sure covers them well. Owned one since 1983, and my 4th version is waiting on a reamer that Manson says will be here mid June. It's a 25 Sherman Short Mag. Duckman is about to build a 25 Max, and we will be comparing. Lance T has the 25PRC/SI in progress now. It's a great day to be supplied with 25 cal bullets.!

Now, you gotta HURRY UP . Keep us posted. Y'all thawed out up there yet?

 

[Calvin45]

I have to wonder, why did Berger and (gulp) Hornady stop at 134/135gr .257 bullets, and not go larger?
Even in .264 they don't exceed 156grs I don't think.?

Berger has made a HUGE contribution to precision shooting by focusing on heavy for caliber bullets. Their chosen offerings aren't exactly a wild stab either. We know how long Berger has been in this game. They have VALID reasons for choosing what they offer, one being practical twist rates/bullet stability surely.

Calvin, like you I employ 257 for what it is. The finest offering of dual purpose effectivness. So much **** fun.! 75-135grs covers a lot of needs and it sure covers them well. Owned one since 1983, and my 4th version is waiting on a reamer that Manson says will be here mid June. It's a 25 Sherman Short Mag. Duckman is about to build a 25 Max, and we will be comparing. Lance T has the 25PRC/SI in progress now. It's a great day to be supplied with 25 cal bullets.!

Now, you gotta HURRY UP . Keep us posted. Y'all thawed out up there yet?

Oh it'll probably be a few years before I actually do this. Got a few other things in the works on a limited budget, regarding money but even more so regarding TIME! At this present juncture I'm a full time post secondary student with a full time job and a 6 year old son, five year old son, and three year old boy-girl twins. Time and money are in short supply but of course I wouldn't change a thing!

But this many I live vicariously through the conversations on LONG RANGE HUNTING, the best forum on the internet!

 

[FEENIX]

If it wasn't for the 131 Black Jack, .25 cal would be stuck at 1:10", unfortunately they failed on their attempt to corner the market and screwed a lot of people in the process. This prompted me to build a 1:7" .257 WBY for the heavy bullet offerings.

For a long time .27 cal was stuck with 1:10" until Matrix came up with their 165 (1:9")/175 (1:8") Matrix. Unfortunately, the new owners, no longer make rifle bullets. I built my .270 AI thanks to Matrix.

The barrel industry responded to the demands and has been a game changer. Bergers are my go-to bullets, but I am open to try bullets that are out of the norm like what Chinchaga (AB) offers, esp. if I can take full advantage of its benefits. I for one am thankful of our Canadian friends providing a niche for us to ponder.

Having a choice is great!!!

@Bghunter338 , the .33 cal 350 might be max for me. Hurry on your load development so I can benchmark from you.

 

[Bghunter338]

@Bghunter338 , the .33 cal 350 might be max for me. Hurry on your load development so I can benchmark from you.

just have to find some 20n29 and I'll be in load development.

 

[Bghunter338]

If it wasn't for the 131 Black Jack, .25 cal would be stuck at 1:10", unfortunately they failed on their attempt to corner the market and screwed a lot of people in the process. This prompted me to build a 1:7" .257 WBY for the heavy bullet offerings.

This is the exact reason I went with there 257 Blackbird, but never received my order of 131s so I was never able to use the gun as I wanted until the 135s came out. Then I found the 145s and they shoot beautiful as well. Now I'm playing with the 163s and I'm not sure if I hit my max bullet weight but it's close if not there. If I can't with my 7.5 twist I'll j.p back to the 145s until I replace this barrel. Either way I'm super happy with the 145s.

 

[hawg chaser]

just have to find some 20n29 and I'll be in load development.

If you weren't so far away......

 

[AZShooter]

Nothing wrong with going with the 257 Weatherby. You have all the components and the dies. You could have a custom reamer made with the money you are saving by using existing stuff.

Around 15 years ago, a friend and I ordered a custom reamer with a shorter freebore of approx .100" and a throat angle of 1 1/2 degrees. The intent was to shoot the 115 Berger VLDs. It worked out well. First two barrels were #5 lilja three groove fluted SS Liljas finished at 28". We got very close to 3700 using RL-25. The load is almost identical to Nosler's load data for their 115 ballistic tip. They list 72 as max. We worked up to 74 showing no pressure issues even in warm temperatures then backed down to use 73 grains.

Since then that reamer has cut another 6 chambers. I wore out my first barrel at just over 1000 rounds. I rebarreled with another 3 groove Lilja with a #3 profile that finished at 27.5" I currently use RL-33 and am getting 3675 fps.

The other rifles all use RL-25 but one that uses H-1000. To date these rifles have taken 31 coues wt 8 elk, 4 mule deer and 2 antelope not to mention a few jackrabbits and coyotes.

You said you wanted flat, IMO the 115 VLD is very flat shooting and has a decent BC.

Here is my trajectory I use when I hunt coues wt at 4400 ft. It is set up for a useful trajectory. Most of our kills are 300-450 yds. This way no turrret twisting is needed for many of shots:

Drop /Drift in 10 MPH crosswind

100 +2.9 drift .3"

200 +3.6 drift 1.2"

300 +1.8 drift 2.9"

400 -3.2 drift 5.3"

450 -7.1 drift 6.8"

500 -12 drift 8.4"

I will be following your thread to see what you end up doing and the performance you get.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Berger and Hornady would've sat back and let the .257 guys suck on the last row? And missed out on the profit indefinitely. 1-10"? Hmmmm. Maybe in factory guns, but my 25/06 AI was built with 1-9" in 2007.
You know, since Sierra supposedly has the equipment for Blackjack, wonder why it lies idle….?
It's probably similar to the Chinchaga market. Not worth making a sizable run, because multiple better options exist, for the caliber.

I may try the 145 black holes in a 7.5" at some point, or 7.25".

If I need more grains of copper and lead than that, I'm gonna have to use a larger caliber for more reasonable speed. And better barrel life with n568/570.
Those are the slowest powders I own or will ever need.

How is the long range precision in the163/7tw combo? Ive asked before but haven't gotten a reply from another shooter.

Whatever it is, in the same twist I'd expect less with a 180. And probably 150fps less velocity to compound the issue. These small bullet makers have interesting products, but there is a reason very few of them are sold. The market doesn't demand them.

Nothing wrong with going with the 257 Weatherby. You have all the components and the dies. You could have a custom reamer made with the money you are saving by using existing stuff.

Around 15 years ago, a friend and I ordered a custom reamer with a shorter freebore of approx .100" and a throat angle of 1 1/2 degrees. The intent was to shoot the 115 Berger VLDs. It worked out well. First two barrels were #5 lilja three groove fluted SS Liljas finished at 28". We got very close to 3700 using RL-25. The load is almost identical to Nosler's load data for their 115 ballistic tip. They list 72 as max. We worked up to 74 showing no pressure issues even in warm temperatures then backed down to use 73 grains.

Since then that reamer has cut another 6 chambers. I wore out my first barrel at just over 1000 rounds. I rebarreled with another 3 groove Lilja with a #3 profile that finished at 27.5" I currently use RL-33 and am getting 3675 fps.

The other rifles all use RL-25 but one that uses H-1000. To date these rifles have taken 31 coues wt 8 elk, 4 mule deer and 2 antelope not to mention a few jackrabbits and coyotes.

You said you wanted flat, IMO the 115 VLD is very flat shooting and has a decent BC.

Here is my trajectory I use when I hunt coues wt at 4400 ft. It is set up for a useful trajectory. Most of our kills are 300-450 yds. This way no turrret twisting is needed for many of shots:

Drop /Drift in 10 MPH crosswind

100 +2.9 drift .3"

200 +3.6 drift 1.2"

300 +1.8 drift 2.9"

400 -3.2 drift 5.3"

450 -7.1 drift 6.8"

500 -12 drift 8.4"

I will be following your thread to see what you end up doing and the performance you get.

Quarter Bore Magic.!

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Calvin you are classified as a clickbaiter, unless you build it within 365 days.

 

[Bghunter338]

I may try the 145 black holes in a 7.5" at some point, or 7.25".

Phil, if you do you won't look back. It will be an awesome bullet for your 25ss that coming.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

It's going to get a try with one of the hot ones. Got a feeling I'll end up with a Max/ Mega eventually. I've had the Max reamer and gauge for about a year, put it on hold for the SS.
Seems like I may have one 7tw blank too.