Problems on the range..

[kacerrob]

Today, I headed out to my local 100 yard range (wish it were longer) to try out my new Kimber Montana. I loaded up some 140 ttsx barnes in new 280 AI Nosler cases and a ladder of 160 accubonds in once shot cases (not in my gun). The new cases chambered just fine but I had a problem with closing the bolt with the once fired cases. During prep, I trimmed and ran them through my full length sizing die and not sure where I went wrong. I am new to reloading.

Thanks for you comments.

Robert

 

[Rich Coyle]

I use Hornady One Shot and let it dry completely. If you partially size a case it usually will not go back into the chamber. Once I get this then I turn the full length sizer down no more than a tenth of a turn until the action closes with ease. Then I try a few cases to make sure it is good to go. Also I anneal after a few firings. If I don't then some will go into the chamber and others will not. Annealing solves this.

 

[cape cove]

What Rich stated x2

 

[Malcolm C]

I'll take a stab at this, but you should know that there are many more knowledgeable people on this forum whose input should be considered with more confidence.

I can think of three possible causes for your bolt closing problems with once fired, full length resized brass.

1. It is possible that your full length sizing die bottoms out before you effectively bump the shoulder back. This scenario would size the neck and body, but your brass shoulder could contact the corresponding chamber shoulder prior to fully camming the bolt closed. If this is the case, pardon the pun, the shoulder area of your smoked case should be cleaned by the chamber.

This hypothesis could be tested qualitatively by inserting a resized and "smoked" case into your action to note the interference positions. Please, consider that you may have to repeat such tests cleaning the chamber between tests to gain confidence in your results

2. Perhaps the expander ball in your die is too tight or not lubricated well enough in the neck and effectively stretches the neck and/or shoulder to longer dimensions when you run the ram back down.

This hypothesis could be tested first by comparing the length of a fired case before and after full length sizing -- if the lengths are consistent, this case has been ruled out. If the case length grows after sizing, smoke the case and insert it into your chamber. If the shoulder is stretching, you should see a bright ring on the shoulder area. If the neck is stretching, you should see the bright ring at the case mouth where it is contacting the end of the chamber.

3. It is possible that the die is flared too much at the mouth to size the web are near your case head enough to fit your chamber.

In this case, the bright ring will be around the web of the case.

4. If none of the above tests show you the cause of the hard bolt cam, you may have to start testing cases with seated bullets. Please, note that I have less confidence in this hypothesis and it should be relatively easy to identify. It is possible that the full length die reduces the ID of the neck to such a degree that the bullet is seated deeper in the new cases than the resized cases given the same amount of force.

If this is the case, you should notice a ring on your bullet jacket where it has been marred by the seating die. Alex Wheeler made a couple of good video about finding the lands and checking the chamber / die matching that can help with the diagnosis of your problem as seen in the following links.





Good luck.

 

[dok7mm]

I hope you have headspace and base to ogive comparators, along with good quality calipers. This is basic reloading 101, you must be able to fit case to your chamber AND use the comparators to measure and record for future resizing.

The videos Alex has shared will show you how, but you must use the comparators to get the relative measurements. It's usually pretty easy, but you handicapped yourself by using brass fired in another chamber.

As Alex described, get your case sized properly first, then find your base to lands measurement. Your last task will be finding the most accurate seating depth. Good luck to your
reloading adventure.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I'll go with Malcolm's #2; the neck expander is pulling the shoulder up a few thousandths.
Pull apart a round that does not fit, clean the inside of the neck with a brass brush wrapped in a bit of steel wool. Lube the inside of the neck (and outside of the case) and run it back through the sizing die. Test fit in the chamber.
BTW - I have found Imperial Sizing wax to be a far superior case lube that works well on the inside of necks.
Lastly - There are times when brass that is fired in a different rifle will just give you fits when reloaded for use in your chamber. Sometimes nothing seems to alleviate the problem.

 

[kacerrob]

thanks guys for the quick responses. I will try them one at a time. I may not have set up the dies correctly...At least I do not have an issue with the new brass.

 

[Wild Bill G]

I have to ask being new to reloading how did you set up your full length die. Did you follow the instructions in the die set. I am not trying to be a jerk it is just there is a ot to learn when we start reloading. Not all dies will ask you to set them up the same. Just something I thought you could check.

 

[ChrisInKY]

I will try them one at a time.

Robert,

Can you upload pics? It would be useful to see the cases that would not chamber. Please post close-ups of the whole case and close-ups from shoulder to case mouth.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Here's the deal with your issues. You trying to use brass fired through another gun, in your gun... This rarely works out for the better without a total re-sizing and pushing the shoulder back a few thousandths. And if your dies aren't either A) properly setup, or B) cut slightly too long to push the shoulder back...Then you will end up with this scenario.

It is not a good idea to reuse brass fired in another gun (especially when you're new to reloading), unless you have the right tools and knowledge on how to properly resize them back down to SAAMI specs. It's much easier and much less hassle to just use brand new brass. The reason is, even though 2 rifles can be built identical, the chambers will still most likely be slightly different. This is why swapping brass around is not a good idea, unless you're an experienced reloader. Most experienced loaders keep their brass separated by individual rifle, because they know swapping it around and mixing it up can kill your concentricity and can change a lot of accuracy factors and can cause accuracy and consistency issues. The chamber on the other gun you got the brass from, was cut slightly longer than the chamber in your gun. Which means the headspacing will be different, and the cases fire-formed out longer than your chamber is cut. Therefore you are having issues closing the bolt on the longer cases.

This can be fixed. Like stated above, you can either make sure you are properly camming-over your reloading press (properly setup dies), and if you are, and it's still not sizing properly, you can have a machinist remove about 5 thousandths off the bottom of your die with a lathe, and then you can readjust your die into your press, and you will get enough adjustment to be sure you're pushing the shoulder back to where the once-fired brass is now back within spec that will fit inside your chamber properly.

Also, on your AI cartridges, the brass doesn't tend to stretch alot and grow, so you can get away with mostly neck-sizing only for about the life of your brass, before you have to chunk them and get new brass. I recommend also buying a matching neck-sizer die for your bolt-action calibers for once you've already gotten your brass fire-formed to your chamber (first firing).

 

[bigedp51]

You can try three things when using once fired brass from a different rifle.
1. Adjust the die to contact the shell holder then give it 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn more. Then when full length resizing pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 or 5 seconds. The pausing reduces brass spring back and the brass bouncing back to its fired size after sizing.

2. Buy a small base die because it will do two things. It will reduce the case diameter .003 more than a standard die and also push the shoulder back .003 more than a standard die. Meaning it reduces the case to minimum SAAMI dimensions.

3. You can lap the top of the shell holder a few thousandths at a time until the resized case fits your chamber. This pushes the case further into the die and bumps the shoulder back more.

Dies and chambers vary in size and sometimes you can end up with a short headspaced chamber and a long die that does not push the case shoulder back enough.

I buy a lot of once fired Lake City 7.62 and 5.56 brass and I size all these cases "once" with a small base die. After this first sizing I fire these cases in my chamber I then use a standard full length die.

NOTE, when you full length resize a case it actually becomes longer than the chamber in headspace length at one point. Then at the last bit of travel of the case into the die the shoulder is pushed back.

Below when full length resizing the brass can only move upward in the die. And as you can see below the die must push the case shoulder below the red dotted line. If the shoulder is not pushed to below the red dotted line the case becomes longer than the chamber and hard to chamber.

 

[kacerrob]

Robert,

Can you upload pics? It would be useful to see the cases that would not chamber. Please post close-ups of the whole case and close-ups from shoulder to case mouth.

I will get some pics up in the next day or so. Sorry for the delay. Thanks again for all the good ideas.

 

[Rich Coyle]

1/8 of a turn with a die is about .009". A quarter turn would be twice that. No way would I turn a die that far at one check.

 

[bigedp51]

If the OP had a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge he wouldn't be having this problem. The OP would know his fired length and be able to adjust his die for the proper shoulder bump.

The OP stated he is using brass fired in a different rifle and his full length resized cases did not fit "his" chamber. Meaning he is dealing with brass spring back and need to push the shoulder back further.

Below measuring a "fired" 5.56 Lake City case and then my die is setup for .003 shoulder bump for my AR15.

I use a Redding competition +.004 shell holder to get my .003 shoulder bump.