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Primers-fps

dcederberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
164
Location
Firth Idaho.
I was wondering if you guys think that changing primers can cause up to or just over 100 feet per second velocity change? I went from 3020 FPS to 2900 FPS on my .243. 41 grains of H4350 , 105 Amax. I was using Federal Match and ran out so I used CCI 200 and it seems I lost velocity. Validated with my G7. Your thoughts??

Ceder
 
In my 7STW I tried changing primers from Fed 215M to CCI 250 and although there seemed to be some incremental increase in accuracy velocity was from 75 to 100 fps slower - measured with LabRadar - just my experience and was unexpected.
 
I've run a few tests using Federal 215 match primers vs a few other brands, and found no difference in velocity, but had better SD with the match primers. Hope this helps.
 
I test primers in most every barrel I get.
30fps difference is ALL I've never seen from 6AI to 300wm.
 
I was wondering if you guys think that changing primers can cause up to or just over 100 feet per second velocity change? I went from 3020 FPS to 2900 FPS on my .243. 41 grains of H4350 , 105 Amax. I was using Federal Match and ran out so I used CCI 200 and it seems I lost velocity. Validated with my G7. Your thoughts??

Ceder


All Primers have a different Brisance. (Heat) and cause different powders to react differently.

One of the first rules of re loading it that you never change/substitute components without reducing the powder charge first.

Several things can/will happen when you substitute primers, Pressure can go up or down. SDs and ESs will/can change and in most cases velocity will change.

Primers are a very important part of the ignition process and should be carefully selected.

In a test I did using a 7 STW I switched from Rem 9 1/2 mag primers to fed 215 primers. the velocity went up nearly 60 ft/sec but the SDs also went from a very good .09 to a poor .27 (3 time worse) this could have been different results with different powders that react differently.

Allways use the primer listed in the manual if it is available. if you have to substitute, use the Brisance chart to adjust the powder charge to a safe level.

Primer Testing Reference

You will see a large difference if you go from a large rifle primer to a magnum primer so look at primer Brisance.

J E CUSTOM
 
"You will see a large difference if you go from a large rifle primer to a magnum primer"

I agree, I have seen this first hand.
 
Well I appreciate the information from everyone. I guess I will find some more federals and see if I get my velocity back. That is the only component that I changed. It seems to be shooting good but I had to change my velocity over 100 FPS to hit a 8inch steel plate at 620. I had it validated to 900 so I know it was on the money.
Ceder
 
Well I appreciate the information from everyone. I guess I will find some more federals and see if I get my velocity back. That is the only component that I changed. It seems to be shooting good but I had to change my velocity over 100 FPS to hit a 8inch steel plate at 620. I had it validated to 900 so I know it was on the money.
Ceder


Some rifles shoot better with a large rifle primer that a Magnum primer, they may need a little more powder to get the pressure and volume up to the same level as before. And that's ok as long as you work up to the same pressure.

So if you cant find a specific primer you may substitute as long as you work up.

It just goes to show what a single component change will do.

J E CUSTOM
 
I once ran out of CCI 200 in a .25-06 and stuck some Federal 215 magnums in instead. The velocity went up 120 per second. In all my years of loading that was the most dramatic I witnessed.
 
I see big changes with primers as a causing or clearing of powder ignition issues.
Powder burn is nowhere near linear to begin, and then various bullet:capacity combinations shape the burn in unpredictable ways. This kind of stuff could be seen with pressure trace, but always has to be measured across a chrono and targets before decisions could be made.

Another factor in the mix with different primers is the striking of them. No doubt a fixed striking would favor one primer over another -until optimized for the other. I suspect nearly any primer could provide best results with striking specifically tuned for it. Start swapping primers and striking tune could collapse or improve.

So why do we trial & error primer swapping, and not adjust striking for the best in each before deciding? I imagine it's because doing so is difficult and costs barrel life. But if you intend to stay the course with a gun, across multiple barrels, this is worthy of consideration. After all, once a primer at set striking is proving best, there may not ever be a reason to fiddle with it again.

I had the misfortune of a firing pin set screw slipping. This opened my accuracy with seemingly continuous flyers. ES jumped beyond 50fps. Yet every primer fired, so this was very difficult to isolate, and even more difficult to recover from. Once I finally figured it out, I had to re-tune the gun with no more than firing pin settings.
Anyway, it worked. I could come in & out of best tune with this adjustment alone. In the end I cut another 1/8th moa over prior best. This, taking me from 3/8moa grouping to 300, down to solid 1/4, which is huge! That took a day at the range with one chosen primer(a worthwhile day).
I wish I could explore it enough to define as a standard, but I'm just a working dog, and cannot afford the endeavor.
Keep it in mind though. A primer/ignition problem might not actually be the primer itself,, and it might be an opportunity.
 
ScannedImage-2_zps41be85b3.jpg

(SOURCE: Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th ed pg 47)
 
Mikecr,

Are you talking about an adjustable firing pin spring?

I had an experience with a Freedom Arms .454 that "liked" CCI450 Magnums. But the cups were too hard for the factory spring to detonate them every time. I loaded a box of fifty and chronographed five five shot groups before I sent it back to Freedom Arms. When it came back it gained 100 feet per second with the first cylendar of five. I had to take the cylendar out and tap the fired cases out of the cylendar. The groups remained 2" at 100 yards as they were before.
 
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