Possible excessive shoulder set back with new Redding Premium die

[25WSM]

Probably from the go guage to the field guage.

 

[25WSM]

Wouldn't apply to guys like you and me who just the go and no-go. I'll have to measure them but I believe my guages are around . 003 difference.
Shep

 

[bigedp51]

Where are you getting the .007" from?

If you look at a SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing the average case has the headspace limits listed as Min and Max with .010 between the two.

So again the GO and NO-GO gauge are used to set up new or barreled rifles. And this allows .007 wear to the max headspace or the Field gauge

 

[bigedp51]

Wouldn't apply to guys like you and me who just the go and no-go. I'll have to measure them but I believe my guages are around . 003 difference.
Shep

And when checking a used rifles headspace you use a field gauge.

FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gauge, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gauges are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.


Pacific Tool and Gauge offers three lengths of headspace gauges per rifle caliber. In order from the shortest to longest, they are: GO, NO-GO, and FIELD:

Below .303 British GO, NO-GO and Field gauges. The British military only uses the .064 and .074 gauges, and as long as the bolt did not close on the .074 gauge the rifle was servicable.

 

[Mram10us]

If you look at a SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing the average case has the headspace limits listed as Min and Max with .010 between the two.

So again the GO and NO-GO gauge are used to set up new or barreled rifles. And this allows .007 wear to the max headspace or the Field gauge

Very familiar with saami. Most go and nogo gauges are .004-.006 different with go always being the minimum headspace length listed. That is why I was wondering where the .007" comes from.

 

[Mram10us]

Wouldn't apply to guys like you and me who just the go and no-go. I'll have to measure them but I believe my guages are around . 003 difference.
Shep

I made a call to jgs, ptg, Forster and clymer when I started playing with wildcats and they all said go was the min saami measurement (capt obvious) but the nogo varied by cartridge from .004-.006". Guessing the field gauge is the max measurement listed, but I didn't ask or care since I'm like you when making a rifle

 

[25WSM]

Still amazed by the . 010 spec on most Sammi cartridges. If I miss my chamber length by more than . 001 I'm embarrassed. I do cut all my Chambers . 003 deeper than minimum. I used to cut them all minimum and had too many factory dies that wouldn't bump the shoulder back. Got tired of cutting the bottom off the dies.
Shep

 

[25WSM]

I don't own any field guages. Been a long time since I messed with any surplus rifles. I would suspect most any modern sporting rifle will not close on a no-go. I haven't seen one yet anyway.
Shep

 

[bigedp51]

On a standard bottle neck case like the .308 there is .003 between the GO and NO-GO gauges. And just because the bolt closes on the NO-GO gauge does it mean the rifle fails headspacing.

Over the rifle's life, you will have bolt lug wear or even lug set back from hot loads and bolt thrust. And on the majority of standard cases you are allowed .007 wear. And this varies between rimmed and belted cases "BUT" there is still life beyond any NO-GO gauge and the rifle still might not fail if the bolt closes on a field gauge. This is because most Field gauges are only .009 shorter the the GO gauge. And this gives you .001 wiggle room, and even if the rifle fails the .010 max headspace this does not mean the rifle can not be used with reduced loads and cast bullets like many collectors of older rifle do.

Below nine .308/7.62 headspace gauges from GO to the .009 longer than the GO Gauge Field gauge.

Below my No.4 Enfield rifle has had the headspace set from .006 shorter than the GO gauge to .010 over the field gauge. Or .058 to .084 and the cases did not separate on the first firing. But at .084 the cases were not worth reloading because they had stretched so much.

I went to my range to check the headspace on a friends Enfield rifle and it swallowed my Field gauge and I could still move the bolt back and forth. And he had been firing this rifle at matches for over a year with no case head separations. This is why I experimented on my Enfield rifle and set the headspace over the maximum. But your chamber pressure will affect how much the case stretches at a given headspace

Below reduced loads in a .303 Enfield that fails the field gauge. The primer has backed out by the amount of head clearance. And the case did not stretch due to the lower chamber pressure.

 

[25WSM]

Firing brass one time in a too long chamber normally isn't going to give you a separation. But resizing that brass to full spec and fired again a few times will. That is where learning how to set up dies come in. I could make my chamber . 100 long and if I jam the bullet hard and blow the case forward and set the die to only bump . 003 you can fire that case 10 to 15 times or more. Aka the 6 Dasher is done this way and the Gibbs and any other case with the shoulder blown out longer. So if you know your chamber is too long seat bullets to jam and fire form them and then proper sizing and all is good. Belted magnum brass is typically short to the shoulder and sizing dies tend to really make them too short if set up to manufacturer instructions. I've had so many customers ask why their belted mag brass last 3 firings and when I show them how to bump size properly they are amazed. That's why sizing die setup is one of the first things I teach someone learning to reload. Most factory dies squeeze the neck way too much and let the expander ball open it back up. This really over works the brass and causes the split necks. Most reloaders don't anneal and split neck can happen fast. Of course bushing dies solve this problem unless the neck diameter of your chamber is huge.
Shep

 

[Bob Wright]

How do you do the "ignore" thing?

Click on the Avatar of the person, a drop down appears. At bottom of drop down, hit ignore....

 

[jdyoung]

When I was 14 , my Father took me to Sears to buy my first center fire rifle. Him being a WWII vet , was familiar with rifles at that time deemed "surplus", the 1917 Enfield which Sears was selling . He and the salesman searched the sales case for one Dad wanted for me. None found. So we went into the storage in the basement. Searched through many boxes until they found a REMINGTON 1917 Enfield. $26.00 plus tax. Eventually took it to an engineer co- worker/friend of Dads'. He had quite the collection of surplus rifles. Some sporterized, some stock. He checked head-space. I didn't know what it measured at the time, I was too interested in rifles in his collection. They were whispering about it. Took it home and the next thing I know, we shot it . With military brass loads. Then I was given a Lee Loader. And shown how to reload that fired '06 brass. Used Dad's Kodak Photography weigh scale. CCI primers, Hornady 150 gr sp. , 53 gr IMR 4895. Shot real nice. But what did I know.

Some years later , I talked with my Father about that rifle. Seems he and his engineer friend found the bolt would close on an '06 Field gauge Plus .002" - .003" of shim. He didn't want to return it as all the stock at Sears seemed to be Winchester or Eddystone. Dad had gotten another co-worker/friend who reloaded , to load Military '06 cases with the bullets just touching the lands. When we shot it ( Dad shot it first so I was safe), the brass supposedly fire formed. I still have the rifle. I still use military Lake City Brass formed to its chamber.

The long winded point I'm tryin' to make is it had a way oversize chamber, but it was still useful.

 

[Mram10us]

On a standard bottle neck case like the .308 there is .003 between the GO and NO-GO gauges. And just because the bolt closes on the NO-GO gauge does it mean the rifle fails headspacing.

The .003" varies from manufacturers .004-.006 last I checked, but now I know where you are getting the .007". Thanks

 

[kfreeze]

A lot of good knowledge in this post for the OP. And some things better explianed by others, than from someone who wanted to make things way harder than they had to be.