OCW test distance for 338LM?

[Axl]

This is Alex Wheelers post from this ladder thead:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/ladder-testing-at-1k-detailed-article-and-video.42881/
Read, understand and follow the 1k ladder procedure if you can. Its by far the best way to do long range load development. ES is far less important than most think. If your under 20 fps, es has no effect on grouping. Most all successful 1k Benchrest competitors will tune at 1k, because it works.

If you want to shoot your smallest at long range this is all you will ever need to know.

 

[User4302021]

This is Alex Wheelers post from this ladder thead:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/ladder-testing-at-1k-detailed-article-and-video.42881/
Read, understand and follow the 1k ladder procedure if you can. Its by far the best way to do long range load development. ES is far less important than most think. If your under 20 fps, es has no effect on grouping. Most all successful 1k Benchrest competitors will tune at 1k, because it works.

If you want to shoot your smallest at long range this is all you will ever need to know.

Alex is a great guy by all accounts and knows his stuff.

But it always makes me shake my head when benchresters with their benchrest guns and gear, expect that everyone should get their results when we don't use their type of equipment.

A guy shooting a 338AI hunting rifle from the prone off a bipod and a rear bag, will struggle to have the same success that a #17 benchrest gun, with a benchrest stock and mechanical rest, and tuned rear bag, from a concrete bench will have.

Every time I bring up that point, the answer back is something to the effect of: "Well, if you can't shoot well enough to get the results I get, then maybe you got no business shooting that far."

 

[David Lindler]

Keep in mind guys, that a bullet has no brain and cannot correct for error.

A good bullet can stabilize and not get much worse at some point (Some call this going to sleep) But if the load is 1 MOA at 100 yards it will rarely stay at 1 MOA if ever.

I always figure if I want a 1 MOA group @ 300 yards I have to get 1/2 MOA at 100 yards to have a chance to stay under 3" at 300 yards. With 1/4 MOA accuracy I can expect 1 to 2" groups or better at 300 yards. Most long range rigs need to shoot 1/2 MOA maximum. I consider a 1/2 MOA or better as a starting point for our sport.

If you have good shooting skills, On good days you should expect to hold the group size very close to the MOA of the rifle.

The best rifle in the world. can't make up for human error so get the rifle shooting as good as it can @ 100 yards and try to develop your skills so you can take advantage
of the rifles accuracy at any distance.

J E CUSTOM

I have a 338 Lapua and edge that shoot sub1/2 MOA @100. To me this the hole reason for building a custom gun is precision accuracy. The Lapua with shoot less 1inch groups at 300. Lucked up and got a shooter. Target 3 shot with 300 grain Berger at 100 yards

 

[Kampfjager]

I have a 338 Lapua and edge that shoot sub1/2 MOA @100. To me this the hole reason for building a custom gun is precision accuracy. The Lapua with shoot less 1inch groups at 300. Lucked up and got a shooter. Target 3 shot with 300 grain Berger at 100 yards

Well if that's the best you can do,lol...... Berger bullet with what powder, brass, etc. ?..... and not being a smart *** but can it shoot that kind of group all the time or was this one of the best its shot?

 

[David Lindler]

Well if that's the best you can do,lol...... Berger bullet with what powder, brass, etc. ?..... and not being a smart *Rule 4 Violation* but can it shoot that kind of group all the time or was this one of the best its shot?

That load is 89 5 of retumbo at 3.675 OACL. I would start with 88.5 and work up. Every gun is different.
Lapua brass. Federal match mag primer. the gun will consistently shot 1/4MOA or less if I do my part.
This was a out of the case, cold bore shot at 1006 yards with 23mph cross wind. Held off did not adjust scope for windage.
Contest between me and a buddy to c would could get closest to the bullseye.
I got lucky and smoked him.

 

[Kampfjager]

That load is 89 5 of retumbo at 3.675 OACL. I would start with 88.5 and work up. Every gun is different.
Lapua brass. Federal match mag primer. the gun will consistently shot 1/4MOA or less if I do my part.
This was a out of the case, cold bore shot at 1006 yards with 23mph cross wind. Held off did not adjust scope for windage.
Contest between me and a buddy to c would could get closest to the bullseye.
I got lucky and smoked him.

Great shooting..... especially for a first round hit

 

[coyotezapper]

That is a good theory, but I don't remember you being there for the discussion.

My point was and is other than case capacity / case weight brass prep has very little to do with ES and SD's. I know he implies that he does a special sort of brass prep but having been in the Benchrest game a looong time there is no special process. You either do it right or you don't. Its the easiest part of handloading.

 

[coyotezapper]

Btw, for those who may be curious what I've got to test is....
285gr ELD-M
Petersons brass
FGMM primers
H1000 powder @ 88.1-89.9 in 2 gr. increments.....

If H1000 does work out for you don't hesitate to try RL33 or Retumbo. I have used both and they both shot great.

 

[Kampfjager]

If H1000 does work out for you don't hesitate to try RL33 or Retumbo. I have used both and they both shot great.

I've heard Retumbo is real real dirty...?

 

[David Lindler]

I've heard Retumbo is real real dirty...?

No worse than h1000. Very consistent with great accuracy and velocity. Does not seem to be as temperature sensitive.

 

[DLR24]

I would buy or borough a Magneto speed. It will save you money in the end. It costs me 2 dollars every time I reload a round for my 338 LM and that is without figuring in the cost of brass (It makes me feel better that way). Find your velocity flat spots that are within 2 grains of powder and make 5 of each node and just shoot them at 100. If they don't shoot at 100 they are not going to shoot at 1k. 65 Guys do a very good video about this and it really does work.

Saves time and money.

 

[FURMAN]

OCW should always be done at 100 yards period. You are looking for POI shift from charge to charge and you need to eliminate all outside variables possible. Ladders should be done at over 500 yards and the farther the better within reason. I prefer 800-1000.

The Satterlee method works less than 50% of the time. I can show you countless velocity "flat spots" that were not accurate at all. I think people pushing this do not do much load development. The velocity node must match the accuracy node and the fact is this is not always the same. I have NEVER seen the OCW fail. I have never seen the ladder fail. I will say that one rifle I did an OCW with was so forgiving at 100 yards that 15 bullets, 3 each at 5 different powder charges were all in the same POI under .5moa so I had to end up doing a ladder at 600 yards to actually distinguish which load would hold up long range.

 

[DLR24]

Very true some flat spots are not accurate but find one that is or tune one and it will work well at a grand and beyond. Low SDs low vertical dispersion at range. Satterlee thank you, forgot his name. Dude knows what he's talking about.

 

[FURMAN]

Alex is a great guy by all accounts and knows his stuff.

But it always makes me shake my head when benchresters with their benchrest guns and gear, expect that everyone should get their results when we don't use their type of equipment.

A guy shooting a 338AI hunting rifle from the prone off a bipod and a rear bag, will struggle to have the same success that a #17 benchrest gun, with a benchrest stock and mechanical rest, and tuned rear bag, from a concrete bench will have.

Every time I bring up that point, the answer back is something to the effect of: "Well, if you can't shoot well enough to get the results I get, then maybe you got no business shooting that far."

First you obviously do not pay attention to what Alex is shooting. Second anyone who can't comprehend that almost every advancement in long range hunting came from benchrest of some sort and that it absolutely matters probably should not be shooting at animals long range.

Alex has no problem getting under .5 moa, usually much tighter at 1k with heavy recoiling magnum rifles. I have been doing ladders since before I even knew who Alex was and I have no problem getting the same results. I don't care what cannon you are shooting if you can not get under .5 moa vertical in a controlled situation like a ladder test you either should not be shooting at game at those distances or you need to shoot a lighter recoiling rifle you can handle.

So yes if you can't shoot accurately enough to consistently hit the vitals "don't shoot that far".