Notes on the Centenerian

Comparing the 308 vs the 30-06, the 6.5CM vs the 260, etc., is a great subject to toss around. Raising the issue of hunting and target shooting has a key factor missing. Target shooting vs competition/Match have no level playing field. Target shooting is enjoyed by many. It doesn't require formal training, skill or extensive practice.
Hunting on the other hand requires a higher level of knowledge for the game you pursue, the terrain, distance, ballistics, foot pounds of energy, your physical fitness, and the fact that now that your game is down you have to process it in other to get it home.

I've observed over 61 years that going out and blasting hundreds of rounds isn't the same as a skilled shooter who works on the basic principals of accurate marksmanship hour after hour.

I come from a background of Uncles who served in WWII, Korea, and who enjoyed hunting for small game, birds, and deer. Having Combat Experience among them they passed those skill sets to my brother and the rest of our family. They emphasized safety, proper firearms handling, and cleaning. But the key message was a firearm was designed to hunt for food, survival, and if you found yourself in a life or death situation, to stop the threat. i.e, kill.

As a Snuffy young U.S. Marine I was fortunate to qualify as an Expert Rifleman in Boot Camp. Even lucky enough to Pull Butts for incredible Marines. What I learned and Earned was the principals of Marksmanship. Serving a few tours in Vietnam as an Infantryman and as a Recon Team Member what I experienced was that your weapons had to be constantly maintained, cleaned and zero'd. Engagement of targets varied requiring verified come ups.

Shooting effectively and accurately require:
Proper cheek weld
Sight Alignment
Breath Control
Trigger Squeeze
Follow Through
Practice, Practice, Practice!

My Weapons of Choice:
22 Hornet small game, varmints, prairie dogs, squirrels
6.5 Grendel small game, varmints, prairie dogs, pigs, and deer
7-08 coyotes, pigs, antelope, deer and elk
30-06 same as above
300WinMag EVERYTHING that appears in my sights

SEMPER FIDELIS
Sergeant Of Marines
Disabled Vietnam Veteran
Gonzo
 
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I would shoot a .308 with a 150gr Barnes TSX because it has killed every animal I have shot out to 650yds with one shot.
 
Why would anyone handicap their .30-06 by shooting anything less than a 180 in it? Why would you shoot a .308 Win with anything less than a 168 in it? Personally, I shoot everything form 168 to 215's in my .308 Win. My .30-06 AI is handicapped with a 12" twist barrel, so it has to stick around the 180-185 grain range, at most, so that's what I shoot in it.

Compare apples to apples, and equal pressures, same bullets, the .308 Win and .30-06 are not 240 FPS different... More like 150.

The poster bdlesh stated 2600 fps for comparison.

What I said was why would I lower my '06 velocities to 308 Win velocities? Ain't that what this thread is about: the centurian 30-06???

Sure, if what he said to create loads that both shoot 2600 fps is a valid comparison as there would be no difference. But why would I limit my '06 loads when they can be so much better.

I can't help that you are handicapped by a 1:12 twist. That is your problem. I do not have those limits.

By the way: I can load the '06 with a Woodleigh 240 gr bullet at almost the same velocity of 2600 fps that whathisname said he gets out of his 308 Win with the 180 gr. bullets. Chew on that for a while.
 
308 shoots lighter bullets well, 30-06 shoots the heaver bullets better than the 308. Both are grate rounds. I have both and many more, I love rifles. Lets shot them all and enjoy!! God bless you all!!!!
 
A question for you: Why would I want to choke down my '06 by 240 fps just to equal the balistics of the 308 Win?
I think you missed the point of my question. I am asking if there is any difference between two different cartridges shooting the same bullet at the same velocity. I keep seeing people arguing over what is best, even if the one's in question have very similar specs. and as for the 2500 fps, that was just a hypothetical number, insert 3000 fps if that helps. I'm just wondering why would there be any difference in performance between the two.
 
I think you missed the point of my question. I am asking if there is any difference between two different cartridges shooting the same bullet at the same velocity. I keep seeing people arguing over what is best, even if the one's in question have very similar specs. and as for the 2500 fps, that was just a hypothetical number, insert 3000 fps if that helps. I'm just wondering why would there be any difference in performance between the two.
If loaded the same you probably will not see any difference accept maybe in accuracy. But if your going to have both why not load them for the best for both.
 
The poster bdlesh stated 2600 fps for comparison.

What I said was why would I lower my '06 velocities to 308 Win velocities? Ain't that what this thread is about: the centurian 30-06???

Sure, if what he said to create loads that both shoot 2600 fps is a valid comparison as there would be no difference. But why would I limit my '06 loads when they can be so much better.

I can't help that you are handicapped by a 1:12 twist. That is your problem. I do not have those limits.

By the way: I can load the '06 with a Woodleigh 240 gr bullet at almost the same velocity of 2600 fps that whathisname said he gets out of his 308 Win with the 180 gr. bullets. Chew on that for a while.
I get 2600 from my 24" .308 Win pushing Berger 215 Hybrids (significantly better BC than the Woodleigh 240).

Since you want to be cocky... Chew on that...
 
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I love the 30-06! I've bought more cheap donor rifles chambered in 30-06 than any other chambering. They make great actions to build a variety of more interesting cartridges using the .473 bolt face (284 Win, 280 AI, 338-06, 35 Whelen, any of the Gibbs rounds......). Plus, it's easy to open the bolt face up to use a .535 case head and start getting into some really fun stuff!

Everybody should go out and buy a new 30-06 so that they can dump their old one at a good price; I need a donor action for the next project........:D
 
I love my '06, my .308 and my 6.5 Creedmoor. As well as my .223, 270 Weatherby mag, .458 SOCOM, 22WRM, 12 Gauge, 16 Gauge, 20 gauge, 40 s&W, 9mm, 45acp...I have enough love for them all!
 
30-06 A Great cartridge, I carry my 308 if I'm packing in and don't want the weight and can shoot the game with 168 or lighter bullets, if I'm not concerned about weight I may shoot the 06 with lighter bullets that fly WAY faster then the 308 can push them, I love both, and there is a time and place for both, but I will never be without a 30-06, and I have plenty of 30 caliber rifles to choose from.
 
I get 2600 from my 24" .308 Win pushing Berger 215 Hybrids (significantly better BC than the Woodleigh 240).

Since you want up be cocky... Chew on that...

The 215 Berger is a target bullet. The Woodleigh 240 is a hunting bullet. Stick the 240 Woodleigh in a 308 Win and see what you get with it.

I'll believe you get 2600 with a 215 Berger in 308 Win when Willie Nelson climbs Mt Everest.
 
I'm not going to comment on the 30-06 vs 308 comparison. It's not anything I'm interested or versed in, because neither is a cartridge I'd use. For MY (maybe not your) uses, there are better choices than either. But I will speak about something I do know. When you say that BC does not equate to terminal performance, that tells me that either you don't understand what BC is or means, or that your bias gets in the way of logic, facts and physics. That's EXACTLY what a higher BC bullet does for you. It helps with terminal performance in the aspects of wind drift, bullet speed and residual energy. When hunting, those are the 3 main things you ARE concerned with. Take for instance my 7 Rem Mag. I had it built/ chambered to shoot Berger 195 EOL bullets. They have an extremely high BC. By doing that, I can get the same energy and speed (TERMINAL PERFORMANCE) at 1200 yards that another 7 Rem Mag shooting lower BC bullets has at 800 or 900 yards. Whether you know or believe that is irrelevant of the fact that it's true and verifiable. So again, before you start speaking with authority on a subject, on a forum filled with very knowledgeable folks, be sure you understand what you are talking about. Or make sure your biases don't get in the way of our "conclusions."

I'll chime in on one other aspect. It's fun to hear the close-minded folks bash the 6.5 CM. It's as common as the Vortex scope bashing and just as silly. People win current matches, titles, championships, etc. with the 6.5 CM. There are very few, if anyone, winning today with a 30-06. The same characteristics that make the 6.5 CM a top contender in competition make it a great hunting round for appropriate game at appropriate ranges. And that envelope is larger than most close-minded people think. There is a whole lot done right with the CM: rifles built with appropriate twist and features, high quality widely available factory ammo, low recoil, appropriate action length and great overall ammo and rifle support. We should be applauding companies that do that, not bashing them.

Well, "It's fun to hear the close-minded folks bash the 6.5 CM.", I'm not sure where I would like to go with this. I AM not a fan of the 6.5CM, and I will certainly make my thoughts on it well known. But.....because of that does it qualify me as a "close-minded folk??" How we got here from a Savage 99 to a .308 Winchester vs a 30-06 and a 6.5 Creedmore baffles me; especially when someone adds in a statement about Creedmore bashers being close minded. Just because a person is opinionated doesn't mean they are closed minded. I believe as you have stated that the right rifle for the right game PERIOD. If one believes that there is one cartridge that will kill everything at all ranges and strike the hammer of Thor, I believe "that" person is extremely close minded.

I am sick of the biases that people project about the Creedmore, not the cartridge or its capabilities. And....I am tired of people poking fun or ridiculing a person for believing that the "ole school" cartridges are worthless compared to the new stuff that is being put out, lauded, advertised, marketed and jammed down our throats. And....if a person does not agree with the marketing BS, then that person is ridiculed and put down. I am not sure if you remember the .280 Ackley Improved, when it first came out. The 280 AI was the 6.5 Creedmore of 2007. The 7mm bullets were the greatest, fastest, deadliest, and most accurate cartridge on the market!! What happened to that cartridge, the articles and all the hype are no longer around or recognized; all the marketing BS on the .280AI is now diluted and the focus is on the Creedmore.
 
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