Nosler AB Long Range No Good?

[Engineering101]

I've been seeing bits and pieces of info on the Nosler Accubond Long Range bullets but no one has posted what amounts to a comprehensive review. From what I've gathered, they shoot OK but not great and tend to blow up leaving only the boat tail. To me that means there are better choices for hunting. Does anyone have any experience to say otherwise?

 

[Engineering101]

I find it interesting that 177 people have viewed this post and no one has any info to share. There are none on the shelf at the local gun shop so somebody must be buying them. Maybe we are all waiting for the other guys to do the testing.

 

[IdahoRedneck]

From the tests I followed here, it seems as though its not a good choice if youll be pushing them at magnum and super magnum velocitys however it may be a great bullet for your average 30-06, 270 velocitys.

 

[Pdvdh]

I've got 2 boxes of 175 gr for my 7mm Rem Mag. Sorry - I haven't shot one yet. If they shoot accurately, my plan is to use them solely for shots past 500 yds. Everything I've read about them indicates they will positively expand at low impact velocity, which is the critical trait for use at longer range (reduced impact velocity). They do have to be accurate to be useful at long range.

I load and use controlled expansion bullets in the magazine for close shots. Then remove those rounds and load single shot style for long range. This is method I'm completely content with, and it instantly solves the problem of trying to find one bullet that will perform under both extremes. So I don't mind a long range bullet that blows apart at high impact velocity, provided it's accurate and it expands at 1500 fps impact velocity. According to what I've read, the LRAB bullets expand down to ~1300 fps. So now they just need to be accurate in my rifles.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Not sure what you're getting at. Seems you started another thread stating how they weren't any good. Or at least alluded to it.

Anyway, I find they shoot great and not good. How they perform on game remains to be seen through my crosshairs. Then again I only run them at 2750'sec or less.

If hornady won't make a 190 grain class amax, then I'm happy to use a 190 ALR. Extends the range of my 308 considerably. I'm sure they won't come unglued any more than the amaxs which do great on deer sized game.

 

[Engineering101]

Michael

I have a bunch of Nosler bullets that I am happy with and I am not saying the ABLRs are not any good. I'm trying to find out what they can and can't do. Accuracy would be number one on the list. I'm glad to hear that you find them to be very accurate. That is good to know and thanks for the info. Just that lets me know I can use them at least for shooting rocks (though they are a bit pricey compared to the AMAXs).

Performance on game is the second thing I wonder about. Nosler advertising says that they have an unlimited top end and will expand all the way down to 1,300 fps. However, I'm hearing stuff as was said earlier in the thread that they may be too soft for magnums but good in the more generic stuff such as a 30-06. That is good to know too but it sure isn't an "unlimited" top end. When you think that John Nosler started his company because he wanted a bullet that wouldn't just go splat on a moose shoulder I find it ironic to see that their latest creation may do just that.

I suppose the only thing that is going to answer my question is some testing on ballistic gel and since it is my question, I should as they say, bite the bullet, mix up some gelatin and test them myself. Come to think of it, if they are soft it may not take all that much gelatin.

 

[Michael Eichele]

We'll I think it illustrates that's it's near impossible if not impossible to make a bullet from unlimited to 1300'sec but I do applaud anybody who would try. Maybe in the future we will see somebody try and best them. Maybe they'll succeed.

There is a lot about the ablr that has not lived up to what was advertised but for 'longrange hunting' they're a step in the right direction and I'm glad somebody at least stepped up to the plate to swing the bat. Maybe it's falling short of the home run wall but hopefully they'll continue to bat and better yet maybe they'll motivate others to do the same. Sooner or later a home run is bound to happen. If not, a triple would be good.

 

[FEENIX]

We'll I think it illustrates that's it's near impossible if not impossible to make a bullet from unlimited to 1300'sec but I do applaud anybody who would try. Maybe in the future we will see somebody try and best them. Maybe they'll succeed.

There is a lot about the ablr that has not lived up to what was advertised but for 'longrange hunting' they're a step in the right direction and I'm glad somebody at least stepped up to the plate to swing the bat. Maybe it's falling short of the home run wall but hopefully they'll continue to bat and better yet maybe they'll motivate others to do the same. Sooner or later a home run is bound to happen. If not, a triple would be good.

Amen to that! I have some 150s in .277 that I bought for less than the price of NAB that's waiting to be tested.

 

[Timber338]

Last year I tried the 210 ALR in my custom 300 win mag. Awful results. Nothing shot better than 1.5moa, and this is out of a proven sub 3/8 moa rifle. Let's be clear up front I am not trying to bash the ALR. I am just reporting on the results I have had. I sent the remainder of the box I had left for free and paid for shipping to another forum member who said he would tell me how they shot out of their gun, and never heard a peep back from him even after several PM's asking. My thoughts are that I got a bad box of bullets, probably manufactured at the very end of a production run and the tooling was just worn out. Nosler has basically no process control within their manufacturing process from an engineering perspective, so chances of getting a bad box of bullets is higher than some other bullet manufacturers. I would typically play the odds and just buy another box, and they likely would have shot great. But you just cannot get those bullets, so I have given up on the ALR and moved on to the Berger 210 Hunting VLD and the 215 Hybrid, both with excellent results.

Below is a picture of several 210 ALR's recoverd from the dirt backstop behind my 100 yard target. Muzzle velocity on these rounds were in the low to mid 2900 fps range, shot at about 5700 ft elevation. Dirt was normal/dry hard packed soil mixed with rock. Weighing the bullets and 3 of them came in between 65 and 75 grains, 1 of them weighed 115 grains. This is in dirt and not an animal, but shows that they are going to have a tendency to explode up close as they are not as durable of a bullet. A 200 Accubond (not LR) I shot in the same shooting session at about the same muzzle velocity weighed in at 170 grains and displayed a much better mushroom.

Kind of like you mentioned, maybe a triple and not a home run, but a step in the right direction. Even then, I would have to see some very compelling field reports of deer and elk shot up close with the big 300 magnums to make me switch away from the Berger 215 Hybrid.

 

[Pdvdh]

Let's be clear up front I am not trying to bash the ALR. I am just reporting on the results I have had. ... Nosler has basically no process control within their manufacturing process from an engineering perspective, so chances of getting a bad box of bullets is higher than some other bullet manufacturers.

Innocent question. Do you have some insider's knowledge of the Nosler bullet company manufacturing and QA/QC processes?

 

[Michael Eichele]

Innocent question. Do you have some insider's knowledge of the Nosler bullet company manufacturing and QA/QC processes?

I was curious as well. Some rifles just will not tolerate certain bullets. I have a 308 barrel that excels with every bullet weight and style (11 various weights and types) EXCEPT the 190 VLD. It just will not shoot the 190 VLDs worth a crap. It's a proven barrel and I've tried different lots of them with the same bad results. Different powders, primers, weights seating depths, the works. Is it a Berger quality problem? Could be but I doubt it.

Not saying nosler hasn't produced a bad run, just saying some barrels will not tolerate a given bullet.

 

[Engineering101]

timber338

Very interesting info. I don't think I've run across many bullets that are known to shoot good in one rifle but are horrible in another - when both rifles are known shooters otherwise. Obviously that can happen but you wouldn't expect to see it in a small sample of data (in this case just 2 rifles) unless the bullet is a little picky. We need a bigger sample size. Is there anyone else out there that has got the ABLRs to shoot accurately? If so, what were the specifics of the load including seating depth.

By the way, the picture showing the bullet fragments was better than I expected. If shot into gel they may hold together good enough and thus be just what people have been saying - good for slow rifles or true long range. That would be a bullet I could use as it would beat the Bergers by 500 fps on the low end. At that point remaining kinetic energy becomes the limit and not bullet expansion.

 

[Timber338]

I was curious as well. Some rifles just will not tolerate certain bullets. I have a 308 barrel that excels with every bullet weight and style (11 various weights and types) EXCEPT the 190 VLD. It just will not shoot the 190 VLDs worth a crap. It's a proven barrel and I've tried different lots of them with the same bad results. Different powders, primers, weights seating depths, the works. Is it a Berger quality problem? Could be but I doubt it.

Not saying nosler hasn't produced a bad run, just saying some barrels will not tolerate a given bullet.

Fair question, and not really sure how to answer in a forum setting. Is there a line we're not supposed to cross with questions like this? Short answer is yes, along with my background in aerospace engineering I know my way around a manufacturing operation. But, did not really want to take this thread into that detail beyond the fact that there's a higher chance of getting a bad box of bullets (based on my own opinion/experience). Other companies do have a higher level of process control in their manufacturing operation, but even then a bad box will slide through. I think it is a rare occurrence from any company.

And Michael, exactly to your point, is why I sent the bullets to another forum member to provide results from a different gun. I offered the bullets up based on the goal of receiving feedback on their accuracy. I was pretty disappointed to never hear back. Back to the bullets, I think I got a bad box. They shot very poorly out of a very good gun. But I admit my process control to investigate the problem was lacking as well. Any other bullet of the same weight and different weight has shot sub 1/2 moa out of my rifle. To your 190vld not shooting, if you've shot different lots with the same results, then almost a statistical impossibility to be a bullet quality issue, so I completely agree with you. Could my gun just not agree with the 210 ALR? yup. But I don't think so. If/when the 210 ALR is available I would like to give them another try mostly because of my own curiosity. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for them when the Berger 210 and 215 are both shooting in the low .3's.

Big picture I think Nosler makes some good products. I think you have to be pretty unlucky to get a bad box, which I think is why the details of any companies process control is kind of insignificant. From what I can tell, the majority of people shooting the 210 ALR have had good accuracy. Certainly much better than the 1.5 - 3 moa I was getting.

 

[Timber338]

By the way, the picture showing the bullet fragments was better than I expected. If shot into gel they may hold together good enough and thus be just what people have been saying - good for slow rifles or true long range...

I agree. Shooting into dirt is going to be harder on the bullet than shooting into an animal. It sort of comes through in the picture, but when you really look at the bullet, you can see the bonded construction really holding the lead to the jacket. I don't think these bullets will "explode" in the fashion where the jacket goes one direction and the lead core fragments to nothing. Even with the less durable construction than the original accubond, it still may be good enough up close, and the bonded core would tend to keep the main mass of the bullet together as it fragments in a single path. At least the up close performance may be adequate ... or an acceptable tradeoff for the added long range performance.

Like everybody else, I don't get why there is so little feedback on this bullet. Somebody is buying them from Nosler...