Norma brass and ejector marks. Is something wrong?

[Nimbus73]

So the other day I tried to finalize a load for my 6.5PRC that I think I like for my 140gr Accubonds. I used some 3x fired Norma brass that I annealed. Using 56.3gr H1000, I loaded 20 cartridges and decided to test 10 each at 2.375 and 2.379 to ogive. For the heck of it 5 of each length had Rem 9 1/2 and 5 of each length had GM210M primers. All shot great with an aggregate velocity of 3000 fps at 92°F. The 210M loads were about 5-10fps slower than the Rem loads and gave me a slightly better SD and ES, but overall too close really matter.

According to published load data 56.3gr of H1000 by Nosler and Hodgdon I should be right in the middle of recommended charge weights.My concern is if I for some reason this load is still over pressure. My SD and ES are all great. The groups are IMO really good, but I am still getting ejector marks and experiencing a medium tight bolt lift. All the brass is about 2.016 in length. As far as velocity is concerned I think I'm right about where I should be.

I have read a few threads where people are claiming Norma's case heads are on the soft side. Is anyone else experiencing this with Norma brass and do the more premium brands such as Lapua, Peterson, or ADG exhibit these characteristics using milder loads? I've had ejector marks multiple times with this brass but often I was at the upper limits of charge Wt. One thing I did different this time was instead of my typical shoulder bump of 1.642-1.643 I sized this brass to 1.644 attempting to get a thou to one and a half thou bump.Am I doing something wrong or is this typical of Norma brass?

 

[Ol' Red]

Your pressure is high. Now you have to find out why. Have you tried another brand of brass with the same load? If not, I would recommend that first.

 

[ShtrRdy]

tagging in.

I'm not familiar with the capability of the 6.5 PRC but is 3000 fps reasonable with the 140 gr bullet?

 

[Rick Richard]

Pressure too high.

You said it:
Ejector marks
More than normal bolt lift.

I have never had an issue with Norma brass, but with that load and atmospheric temperature you may have gone overboard.

Try a different brass with the same load or reduce powder charge.

 

[lancetkenyon]

You gave no rifle info. So it is hard to say if your velocities are excessive.

For a 26", not at all.
For a 22", you are at max.
For an 18", yeah, too hot.

I have found Norma (and Nosler) to have soft heads. Across the board. So I have never worried about an ejector shine. Bolt lift is a bit concerning, but if you are getting ejector stamps, that could be causing some of it.

Your charge weight sounds like it is right where it should be, in the high-middle range. I have seen 57.0 getting warm in a few 6.5PRCs, however. And 58.0 is usually near absolute max with H1000.

What would be more concerning to me is you seen to have 1 shot out of the group on each target.

 

[Muddyboots]

Hodgdon data shows 6.5PRC with a 24" brl 57.7 210 primer gets you 2902 with 140BT. You are showing 100fps faster with about 1.5grains less than Hodgdon max load. COAL was 2.880".

Did you work up to the 56.3 or just pick it as being somewhat middle road? The 56.3 is very close to Hodgdon max. Some rifles just cannot get into the upper load data of manual. I had one that could not get within 2 grains of max load. It happens.

Load info such as ladder data, shoulder set back, jump, etc. Fired primers look bit flattened.

Some rifle data will be helpful.
Rifle?
Barrel length

 

[Dean2]

Norma brass is soft. Most of your cases show more than one ejector mark as well as swipes. Some rifles leave ejector marks, even with starting loads, but it can also be caused by too much sizing and head space, in addition to too much pressure. Maybe try neck sizing to see if that helps, it will tell you if you are bumping your shoulder back too far.

Some of the silver primers appear flattened, the brass ones generally look very good. That could be pressure, or harder primers. You do have a flier in each group, that needs to be sorted too.

I would try Lapua Brass and work up the load using the brass coloured primers and neck sizing the brass with no shoulder bump.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Norma brass isn't soft, it just has the thinnest webs in the industry making it look soft and also has the most capacity.
Primer pockets will open sooner too, so, although very good brass, it just can't handle being pushed. The biggest noteworthy factor is stiff bolt lift, a sure sign the brass is stretching beyond its elastic limit.
To the OP, your loads look fine, yet it is not doing your brass any good, back off some.

Cheers.

 

[Rick Richard]

Norma brass isn't soft, it just has the thinnest webs in the industry making it look soft and also has the most capacity.
Primer pockets will open sooner too, so, although very good brass, it just can't handle being pushed. The biggest noteworthy factor is stiff bolt lift, a sure sign the brass is stretching beyond its elastic limit.
To the OP, your loads look fine, yet it is not doing your brass any good, back off some.

Cheers.

Yep. You can maybe question marks on the brass, but no doubt what causes heavy bolt lift…never second guess that obvious sign.

 

[sep]

As previous posters pointed out, Nosler 140 Accubond load data for 6.5 PRC shows 58.0 grains H1000 with a 26 inch barrel getting 3031 fps. Don't know your barrel length. You could have a fast lot of powder, tighter chamber and/or bore dimensions etc. Medium tight bolt lift is telling you something too.

I use Norma brass in 7mm-08. 30-06 and 338 Win Mag. I only get those ejector marks when I'm over max pressure.

 

[Nimbus73]

Muddyboots-This was the very 1st reloads I made for this gun. I shot in Nov '24 with a ladder from 54.0gr-58.5gr of H1000. See my notes on the picture. I did not retest any higher charge weights than 56.3gr like I wrote at the time.

Ol'Red-No. When I bought this gun I bought a case of some Norma 143gr Golden Target ammo, but I wasn't into reloading yet. I have less than a box of once fired Hornady brass. I'm considering buying some Lapua, ADG, or Pederson but as I shoot my Norma's I use that as my brass supply.

Lanctkenyon- Sorry. The gun is a Bergara HMR Pro with a 26" barrel with an APA Little Bastard brake. Yeah, one shot out. I've noticed recently a pattern of the cold bore shot being out but not bad. As far as the other 2 groups, it could be me or just a natural dispersion. I don't know. Originally, I planned on 2 10 shot groups using just the Rem primer (gold colored) testing the seating depth previously mentioned but I just got my hands on some Gold Metal Match primers(silver colored) and wanted to do a quick comparison.

Dean2- I started using a sharpie to mark previous ejector marks so I can tell if I get new ones when load testing because I know on some previous tests with a few loads I working on I found pressure.

As far as headspace goes. I pulled the firing pin and removed the ejector pin and incrementally bumped back until I felt minimal to no resistance when closing the bolt. I originally was bumping back to 1.643-1.642 but after some more measuring I determined 1.644 gives me a 1-1.5 thousandths set back. This was the 1st time I fired the brass with this bump dimension. I did notice with the GM210M (silver primers) there wasn't as much resistance when seating them and they also appeared to be a little flatter. I may have crushed them some, I don't know. I meant to take a picture before if them before shooting but I forgot.

I am using a Forster Full length bushing die with this cartridge and do not have a neck sizing die. I started using a .292 bushing, but early on I found out my neck tension was loose enough I could twist some bullets once loaded, so I moved down to a .290 bushing and haven't had any neck tension issues since.

FWIW, my gun is shooting the factory Norma 143gr Golden Targets about 2953 and the factory Hornady 143gr ELDX about 2987.
I'm just scratching my head, because I'm in the middle of what should be a safe load range. Also, I have noticed in some 156gr Bergers and 143gr ELDX loads I'm working on, it seems I get pressure signs far sooner than loads I've seen posted by many and sometimes before I get to the listed book max. Maybe 56.3gr of H1000 is too much in this gun. I downloaded GRT and learning it, but if it is remotely close it says I am at only about 53.5kPSI. I don't know how fast a carbon ring develops, but I cleaned everything about 60 rounds ago and did not have one then. I'm just trying to figure out if it is my sizing or the brass or the possibility I do have a tight chamber.

 

[MagnumManiac]

As an example, I section every brass brand I buy/use, test volume in CC's and measure all dimensions, including web height/thickness and wall thickness just above the web.
My Ruger 25-05 has negative headspace by a thou', however, it is generous at the web. Using Norma brass, expansion is lower and wider on those cases over any other brand, even though wall thickness in that area is quite thick. The web being thinner is the cause. Primer pockets do open prematurely with ANY load within 10,000psi of max, so I take this into account when testing loads over the Pressure Trace.

Cheers.

 

[Nimbus73]

This is my initial test from Nov.

 

[MagnumManiac]

2 additional things need to be said here.
1) You cannot successfully determine ANYTHING from primer appearance, so forget that. Especially comparing one brand to another. I will tell you with absolute certainty that Federal primers, generally, are softer than other brands.
2) The brass will determine your MAXIMUM PRESSURE, not a RELOADING BOOK.
You are kidding yourself if you think you can reach max loads when your brass is screaming to you to STOP adding powder. Your bolt is also telling you the brass can't withstand the pressure you are subjecting it to.

Cheers.