RUFFIAN R - NY
Well-Known Member
All guns are not created equal: Each and every one is different- so what works for one will not or may not work for the other. It's called handloading for a reason-besides - anybody can reload. IMO
No load data for Lapua, plenty for Winchester, Remington and federal
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Murtfree
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly….the OP also is not using the same gun and chamber that the data was worked up in and that is probably a larger variable than the brass. If you stay within the load manual parameters of powder charges with a specific bullet weight you should be good
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
First reduce the load to the lowest starting point in the manual, and work up at 1/2gr at a time, increasing the powder load. You only Fire one case for each powder charge to see how they are doing. Watch your primers, they will tell you what's going on, and where to stop. about 10 to 12 shot should give you ideal where you need to be for powder loading. Some may have to have the bullet pulled, because you have reach the max earlier in the run up. (Bottom line is you need to watch the primers for pressures signs)The other is you should really shot a reduced load and have contact with bullet to the rifle lands to fireform your cases. Before you really do the run up on powder to pressure. Being primers and powder are presently hard to come by. Otherwise it may take more than one time fireforming your cases. Because it changes the volume inside the case, due to fireforming the cases.
Being it's a belted mag cartridge it head spaces off the belt. So there lots of case stretch going on. To stop that or slow it down, only bump the shoulder back a .001 or .002" when resizing the cases. That will extend the case life. I have and load for a 308NMag which is the forerunner of the 300WM. I am very aware of case stretch. The Lapua or Peterson cases will help in achieving better grouping, because the volume inside the case are much closer that any Win, Rem or other low end cases.
I use to FL size my back to SAAMI standards. I would lose a case in about 3 firing to case stretch. Change how I sized my case and didn't have to worry about case stretch any longer. I push my cases to the max with heavy powder loads. I would lose my primer pockets in about 10 to 12 firing. Annealing is another practice you should do.
Why Lapua and Petersons and theirs a few others that the volume inside the case are very close to being the same. They will cut down the ES/SD, and help with your grouping. Beyond 600yds that become very important.
The other is it sound like your purchase those cases, not knowing why others are, and that everybody else is talking about how good they are. They are very good cases. So you jump on the bandwagon. Presently those case are hard to come by.
Being it's a belted mag cartridge it head spaces off the belt. So there lots of case stretch going on. To stop that or slow it down, only bump the shoulder back a .001 or .002" when resizing the cases. That will extend the case life. I have and load for a 308NMag which is the forerunner of the 300WM. I am very aware of case stretch. The Lapua or Peterson cases will help in achieving better grouping, because the volume inside the case are much closer that any Win, Rem or other low end cases.
I use to FL size my back to SAAMI standards. I would lose a case in about 3 firing to case stretch. Change how I sized my case and didn't have to worry about case stretch any longer. I push my cases to the max with heavy powder loads. I would lose my primer pockets in about 10 to 12 firing. Annealing is another practice you should do.
Why Lapua and Petersons and theirs a few others that the volume inside the case are very close to being the same. They will cut down the ES/SD, and help with your grouping. Beyond 600yds that become very important.
The other is it sound like your purchase those cases, not knowing why others are, and that everybody else is talking about how good they are. They are very good cases. So you jump on the bandwagon. Presently those case are hard to come by.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=25
VihtaVuori reloading data is all based on Lapua brass.
VihtaVuori reloading data is all based on Lapua brass.
Generally you can use the standard load data as the Lapua case will handle more pressure before showing it. Some loaders sub in a remington or nosler case as they approach max so they can see pressure signs that the Lapua case hides. Because Lapua brass hides pressure signs better its even more important to work your way up.
Old Infantry Guy
Well-Known Member
Call the tech-reps at Berger. They also handle Lapua products in the USA. Their phone number is 660-460-2802. These guys are amongst the best in the industry.
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longbarrelxp
Active Member
The Hornady 11th edition has load data for the 338 Lapua, but using Hornady brass.
Given a choice, I go with Lapua as IMO it's the best, closely followed by ADG & Peterson. I have two calibers that these folks don't support, yet. 1 is my wife's 17 Remington and the other is my 224 Valkyrie. For load development, I typically never get to the max listing as w/o exception, max loads haven't proved the most accurate, same with minimum loads. I look for minimal SD/ES and concentrate on those velocities. I admit to be an accuracy "nut".
Loading manual loads is meant as a guide, ONLY. Do not expect a loading manual to be exact, that would be very poor thinking as you have to do your own interpretation of what is safe and not safe with your barrel and particular lot# of components on hand. Loading manuals offer Their loads with their rifle barrel at whatever wear level it had on it at the time, their lot# of powder, their brand of brass, and their lot# of primers. All of that load data has a degree of safety as lawyers are advised. The TRUTH about loading manuals is often very distressing to the new guy.
I was taught the following method of load development by an old German gunsmith from way back:
Start midway in the powder charge listed
Load one round and one round only
Increase the powder charge on mid to large cases .5g at a time
keep going up in powder charge, chronograph if you can
The Goal is to FIND pressure
When you find pressure indicated by case head scuffing, hard bolt lift, STOP. With a magnifying glass, you can watch the lettering on the back of the case get thinner as you approach top-end pressure. Primer cratering is an indication of over sized firing pinhole, as a general rule of thumb. However, primers do get flat as peak pressure is attained.
In a lot of cases, the best accuracy will be somewhere in the realm of where the primer starts to lose its round edge, getting square.
When using this method, when you find pressure, back off 3.0g and start shooing either two or three-shot groups with the goal of finding the bullets shooting in the same bullet hole. Verify your "same bullet hole" load several times.
On the tightest groups, a change in a primer, or a change in seating depth will narrow the load down to a bug hole.
It is not unusual to work up a load in 30 shots or less in an unknown caliber/wild cat.
Do not be ain idiot with the mindset that if you load it, you have to shoot It!!!
. Pull the bullets that are at max pressure and above. I have seen guys on three occasions beat the bolt handles off of their bolt beating the gun on the side of the bench, 2x4, or post that was holding up the roof at the rifle range. APPROACH MAX PRESSURE WITH CAUTION.
I shoot Remington 700's and Model 70s where the bolt head alone is pressure rated at 150,000 PSI. The old German gunsmith that taught me this shot nothing but Mausers in a particular range of years and manufacturer.
I work with the yield strength of the case head, for max accuracy with some pressure, and this is not for Novice reloaders.
Novice reloaders need to have 5 reloading manuals, study the min/max loads, and approach the Max loads with caution. Remember, watch for pressure, take the time to study carefully the case head in detail, and pay close attention to the amount of bolt lift. If you reload over what gives max pressure indicated by heavy bolt lift or case head scuffing, DO NOT SHOOT ANY MORE OF THOSE LOADS OR HOTTER LOADS...PULL THOSE BULLETS INSTEAD.
While working uploads as I mentioned above, stand the case heads up in a loading block or your Case Guard ammo box in increasing powder charge. You will be all too aware of how the pressure builds by the looks of the case head. A small magnifying glass is very helpful.
When you are working with calibers that you have used previously, the above loading process can make for some very, very quick load development, often in 21 rounds fired.
It is somewhat controversial as to where to start the bullet seating depth for load development. I start at .005 off the lands, but with VLD bullets that can vary. Where the distance to the lands is so great that you can not use the magazine, then you use max magazine length as a place to start your load development.
It is important to record the velocity of the Bug Hole load you find when the barrel is new. As the throat wears, you will lose velocity, and often adding more powder to bring up the velocity will renew that bug hole load.
If you have the magazine length, monitor the OVER ALL LENGTH TO THE LANDS and maintain that length as long as possible.
Best wishes
I was taught the following method of load development by an old German gunsmith from way back:
Start midway in the powder charge listed
Load one round and one round only
Increase the powder charge on mid to large cases .5g at a time
keep going up in powder charge, chronograph if you can
The Goal is to FIND pressure
When you find pressure indicated by case head scuffing, hard bolt lift, STOP. With a magnifying glass, you can watch the lettering on the back of the case get thinner as you approach top-end pressure. Primer cratering is an indication of over sized firing pinhole, as a general rule of thumb. However, primers do get flat as peak pressure is attained.
In a lot of cases, the best accuracy will be somewhere in the realm of where the primer starts to lose its round edge, getting square.
When using this method, when you find pressure, back off 3.0g and start shooing either two or three-shot groups with the goal of finding the bullets shooting in the same bullet hole. Verify your "same bullet hole" load several times.
On the tightest groups, a change in a primer, or a change in seating depth will narrow the load down to a bug hole.
It is not unusual to work up a load in 30 shots or less in an unknown caliber/wild cat.
Do not be ain idiot with the mindset that if you load it, you have to shoot It!!!
. Pull the bullets that are at max pressure and above. I have seen guys on three occasions beat the bolt handles off of their bolt beating the gun on the side of the bench, 2x4, or post that was holding up the roof at the rifle range. APPROACH MAX PRESSURE WITH CAUTION.
I shoot Remington 700's and Model 70s where the bolt head alone is pressure rated at 150,000 PSI. The old German gunsmith that taught me this shot nothing but Mausers in a particular range of years and manufacturer.
I work with the yield strength of the case head, for max accuracy with some pressure, and this is not for Novice reloaders.
Novice reloaders need to have 5 reloading manuals, study the min/max loads, and approach the Max loads with caution. Remember, watch for pressure, take the time to study carefully the case head in detail, and pay close attention to the amount of bolt lift. If you reload over what gives max pressure indicated by heavy bolt lift or case head scuffing, DO NOT SHOOT ANY MORE OF THOSE LOADS OR HOTTER LOADS...PULL THOSE BULLETS INSTEAD.
While working uploads as I mentioned above, stand the case heads up in a loading block or your Case Guard ammo box in increasing powder charge. You will be all too aware of how the pressure builds by the looks of the case head. A small magnifying glass is very helpful.
When you are working with calibers that you have used previously, the above loading process can make for some very, very quick load development, often in 21 rounds fired.
It is somewhat controversial as to where to start the bullet seating depth for load development. I start at .005 off the lands, but with VLD bullets that can vary. Where the distance to the lands is so great that you can not use the magazine, then you use max magazine length as a place to start your load development.
It is important to record the velocity of the Bug Hole load you find when the barrel is new. As the throat wears, you will lose velocity, and often adding more powder to bring up the velocity will renew that bug hole load.
If you have the magazine length, monitor the OVER ALL LENGTH TO THE LANDS and maintain that length as long as possible.
Best wishes
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I haven't had time to do anything but skim this thread. But I will say that if the OP is still thinking about getting rid of the lapua brass because it isn't listed in the books, he'll be missing out on using brass that imo is far superior to the brands he listed. Capacity is a bit different but not so that it's dangerous of he uses sound increments to work up. In the two cartridges I've developed a load for hornady brass and then switched to lapua, I've found the lapua brass requires nearly exactly half a grain less powder to reach identical velocities as the hornady brass as measured by a labradar. This is in roughly the 40-42 grains of powder range, so that would be between 1 and 2 percent. Nothing that wouldn't be safe if you started at a middle charge between min and max loads listed.
There is so much variation in the chamber/barrel of your rifle that the variation in brass doesn't matter that much. The only time it matters is when you already have a load worked up with one brand of brass and then you switch. If your load is close to max for your rifle then you would want to back off at least 5% and work back up. If the new brass is thicker you may finder that your nose is lower by a few tenths.
On custom barrels, the custom chamber may not even accept Lapua, Norma, Hertenberger, or PMC brass due to the brass being designed by European CIP spec vs American SAAMI spec. Factory rifles have generous chambers where most will accept CIP-designed brass.
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This is exactly why I have reamers made using dummy rounds with brass that I will be shooting.
That said most SAAMI readers are generous enough in the neck area to accept almost any brass.
That said most SAAMI readers are generous enough in the neck area to accept almost any brass.
rooster740
Well-Known Member
In my opinion you will find more variations in chambers and barrels then in brass manufacture variation.
The same type and barrel manufacturer chambered with the same reamer at the same time can have drastic variations.
Start on the low end and work up. Looking for basic velocity and accuracy nodes, knowing that this is likely to change by 50fps and ES will become more consistent over the first 100 rounds.
Fire all of your new brass at 10% below maximum pressure to extend your brass life and almost alway never fully full size your brass after the first firing.
Check headspace while full length sizing as you get to your 2-3 firing.
The same type and barrel manufacturer chambered with the same reamer at the same time can have drastic variations.
Start on the low end and work up. Looking for basic velocity and accuracy nodes, knowing that this is likely to change by 50fps and ES will become more consistent over the first 100 rounds.
Fire all of your new brass at 10% below maximum pressure to extend your brass life and almost alway never fully full size your brass after the first firing.
Check headspace while full length sizing as you get to your 2-3 firing.
