New to the forum, 6.5-284 question

[rscott5028]

The proper tools to measure are far less expensive than the barrel life and ammo you're wasting.

ditto for a box of premium factory ammo

-- richard

 

[1shot1yote]

I see your point, but I'm just trying to figure this out without buying them if I can. I'm going elk hunting the middle of October and trying to save as much money as possible, plus I need to put a better scope on this thing before I leave. I really appreciate all the feedback.

Thanks
Justin

 

[Greyfox]

I own the same rifle and know three other people that own it as well. With the exception of extreme spreads and a small velocity difference you shouldn't see a material difference in pressure or accuracy using Lapua new vs fired and resized brass. Unless the gun fir some reason is out of spec, you should be able to shoot 53gr of 4831sc without pressure issues, for sure at 51.5 gr. The OAL cartridge length using 140 Berger VLD's, touching the lands should be 3.18"-3.29". I have found best results seating .075" off the lands. Also, neck OD should be .292". With new brass the neck should be expanded since new Lapua is .290", too tight and the seater may deform the bullet due to seating pressure. I have found that Federal 210 Match primers work best with H4831sc. You didn't mention what FL sizing dye you are using. I use a Redding competition dye and size .001- .002" under the fired case length. The expander in this dye brings the Lapua neck to .292" which is perfect for Berger 140 Hunting VLD's. I use a .292" bushing as well. A fired cas should be around .296" on the neck.these spects appear to be consistant with other LRH's I have seen. If it's radically different, I would suspect the rifle to be out of spec.

 

[1shot1yote]

I came up with an OAL of 3.207 touching the lands, so that seems to be within specs. I did not size my brass before I shot it so maybe the couple extra thousandths of neck tension had something to do with it. I am using Hornady dies by the way, went with the micrometer bullet seater. Works good other than we had to chuck the seater plug in a lathe and relieve the top of the plug so the long VLD's wouldn't hit on their nose.

I measured some of the resized brass and .292 seems to stick in my head. All of the reloading stuff is at my father's house. I have had my best groups with H4831sc and Remington 9 1/2's. I am going to shoot some of the resized brass tomorrow and see if there is a difference. Greyfox thanks for all the info! If I can't get this thing to shoot better it may have to go back to Savage.

Thanks
Justin

 

[Greyfox]

I came up with an OAL of 3.207 touching the lands, so that seems to be within specs. I did not size my brass before I shot it so maybe the couple extra thousandths of neck tension had something to do with it. I am using Hornady dies by the way, went with the micrometer bullet seater. Works good other than we had to chuck the seater plug in a lathe and relieve the top of the plug so the long VLD's wouldn't hit on their nose.

I measured some of the resized brass and .292 seems to stick in my head. All of the reloading stuff is at my father's house. I have had my best groups with H4831sc and Remington 9 1/2's. I am going to shoot some of the resized brass tomorrow and see if there is a difference. Greyfox thanks for all the info! If I can't get this thing to shoot better it may have to go back to Savage.

Thanks
Justin

Glad to help. I did have a typo on my seating depth, meant 3.18-3.19" into the lands but your OAL into the lands is fine. I pushed my bullet into the lands pretty hard.
I also wanted to mention a situation I just went through with my 260 Savage LRP. Using Lapua brass I was experiencing high pressures and sticking cases. At first I thought it was my FL sizing dye. After going through all the adjustments and even trying different dyes. I still couldn't solve the the problem. It occured with about 50% of my cases in that box of brass. I thought it might be a bad chamber but decided to buy another box of Lapua brass, different lot. It was bad brass! The new lot shot great and I'm on my 3rd reload without any issues. I was surprised because I have always had great performance with Lapua brass. I think it's a long shot, and very rare, but you may want to try a different case if you can't resolve your issue and believe it is a problem with the rifle.

 

[1shot1yote]

Ok thanks for the heads up on the brass issue. Were you able to get any of it replaced, this stuff is expensive! I can get some 284 brass from my brother in law and try some of that.

Thanks
Justin

 

[Greyfox]

Ok thanks for the heads up on the brass issue. Were you able to get any of it replaced, this stuff is expensive! I can get some 284 brass from my brother in law and try some of that.

Thanks
Justin

I haven't done anything about it yet. Agreed, it is expensive. I need to contact Lapua.

 

[rscott5028]

Justin,

I don't buy into the "bad brass" issue in this instance. ...not that it can't happen.

You would have to be already near your max load and have something pretty uncommon about the brass to be the "cause" of excess pressure. Your OP indicated you were seeing pressure signs well below normal charge/velocity levels.

Someone please explain how "bad brass" from Lapua would cause that unless the brass is simply not sized or trimmed within specs. Which also brings us back to the "trim to" length relative to this rifle's chamber/neck. Nothing was measured, sized, or trimmed.

Neck OD (unless so thick that it's pinched by a tight chamber) and neck tension don't cause excess pressure with starter loads.

Something is amiss with your procedure (like not sizing or measuring brass due to taking shortcuts). Or, the rifle is out of spec e.g. short neck pinching brass. Or, you simply have an oily/slick chamber that's allowing more than usual thrust against the bolt face.

-- richard

 

[backwoods83]

I think your barrel is severely fouled copper and carbon. Try some cheap 140 amaxs at 3.125" oal with 56.5grns H1000 or 58grns Retumbo with Fed215Ms or CCI 250s, after you clean your barrel.

 

[1shot1yote]

rscott, I appreciate all your help but I'm not a rookie reloader. I shot the rifle today with resized brass and there were no signs of pressure, went all the way to 53 gr of 4831sc I didn't trim the resized brass as it was still .001 under trim to length. I have also cleaned a few rifles so I know well enough to wipe the chamber out after I clean the gun.

Backwoods I have only gone about 20 shots since the last cleaning so I don't think fouling is the issue, especially since I've had this trouble since like shot #8 where I was cleaning every shot.

With the testing today shooting with resized brass ES were within 10 to 15 fps this is way better than it was previously. Best group of the day (even with the wind gusting to 30) 100 yds .615 MV 2850 So what changed?

Thanks
Justin

 

[backwoods83]

What changed? Your brass fits the chamber as it should along with proper neck tension. Oh btw there is half assed cleaning and real cleaning. I have had people bring me rifles with issues and they said I just cleaned it, usually the first thing I do is reclean it, and have gotten almost enough copper from some to make an entire jacket, and the rougher chromoly 8 twist 26 cal savages copper foul in less than 20 rounds until they've been fired about 300 times in my experience.

 

[1shot1yote]

So what you're saying is that I don't know how to reload and I don't know how to clean a rifle..... confidence in your fellow man.

The gun was clean when I was trying to shoot good groups, and achieve the MV I wanted. I always scrub until the patches come out clean. When I asked what changed it was kind of a rhetorical question. I know exactly what changed, the brass now fits the chamber of my rifle.

I am not trying to start a ****ing match with anyone I am new to this forum, but not to shooting, reloading, or cleaning guns. I've never had to work this hard at it to develop a good load out of any rifle. I really appreciate everyone who gave my helpful feedback.

Thanks
Justin

 

[backwoods83]

Not a ****ing contest, but do you use montana extreme or sweets 7.62?

 

[1shot1yote]

I've been using Sweets for a few years now.