New Savage 7mm-08 Issues?

[PrairieHunter]

I have been a long-time lurker of this forum and finally registered to post my issue/question to this group of experts, so a huge preemptive thank you is appropriate here.

I just bought a new Savage Axis II in 7mm-08. Took the rifle to the range to shoot this weekend and may have an issue. Several rounds of factory ammo (Rem CL, Hornady Am WT, Fed Fusion) seemed to shoot just fine. However, when I tried some of my handloads, I had some sticky bolt and ejection issues. I have loaded for 15+ years for myself and my two teenagers 7mm-08 Weatherby Vanguard rifles. Their rifles like the following loads: 130gr Speer BTSP over 41gr IMR4064 and 145gr Speer BTSP over 39.5gr IMR4064. These were both loaded in R-P or Horn brass. I never had any issues with these loads (or loads with more powder while testing groups while developing these loads) in the Vanguards, but my new Savage got sticky with extraction. No other signs of pressure, no cratered primers, marks on cases, etc.

So, I got home and started cruising forums for insight. One post on this forum suggested using a marker or candle soot to color cases and then load/close the bolt and see if there is any rubbing or strange contact points. So, I took a single brass case of all of my supplies and tested them in my new rifle. I used a case that was re-sized through my sizing die, completely markered the exterior of the case, carefully placed it in the chamber and closed the bolt. Then ejected each case for inspection.

Results = only the Federal case (far right in photos) ejected with no visible marking. All other brand cases (see photos) had two areas where the marker was rubbed off. One area is near the base, the other smaller area is near the shoulder on the opposite side of the lower mark (180 degrees). The marks were similar among all brand cases except for the Federal.

So, is this a significant issue? Do I simply use ONLY Federal ammo and cases going forward? Do I try some other test loads I know to be well under max and see if I get sticky bolt and ejection issues? Is there that much of a difference between Federal cases and other brands? I appreciate any thoughts to help me digest what might be happening.

 

[Koda_]

Its not the brass. Never shoot handloads you developed for one rifle, in a different rifle.
The good news is you didnt blow up the new rifle and you now have fireformed brass to start over with for the Savage.

 

[PrairieHunter]

So, do I only shoot factory loads to start, resize and load the brass ONLY fired from this Savage? I need to keep all the brass from the Vanguards separate and not try to reload and shoot them in the new Savage?

Thanks.

 

[Koda_]

So, do I only shoot factory loads to start, resize and load the brass ONLY fired from this Savage? I need to keep all the brass from the Vanguards separate and not try to reload and shoot them in the new Savage?

Thanks.

It doesn't matter what brass you use you just cant fire a load developed for another rifle.

You could also buy a box of new brass and go from there.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

So, do I only shoot factory loads to start, resize and load the brass ONLY fired from this Savage? I need to keep all the brass from the Vanguards separate and not try to reload and shoot them in the new Savage?

Thanks.

yes ,



you missed the fist rule , start low and work up


it would be great idea to keep only the federal brass for your new rifle ( or any specific headstand brand ) , to never mix with the other rifles

 

[Barrelnut]

Welcome, PrairieHunter.

This happens sometimes. The Savage chamber is probably tighter than the Vanguard chambers. or the Vanguard chambers are looser. And the die you are using is somewhere in the middle. However you want to look at it...
Did you try resizing the once fired brass in the Savage chamber to see if it has issues fitting back in the Savage chamber? If that works, the simplest solution is to just keep the brass separated by chamber.
From the sharpie marked brass looks like the sizing problem is down around the web of the case; where these problems usually show up. If you measure the cases at the web, with a micrometer, the problem will probably be evident.
It would be a good idea to keep track of the web size on the fired cases. You may find that they grow with each firing and the dies never resizes them back to SAAMI spec. To complicate it more, you will find unfired brass from all manufacturers have different dimensions at the web. I think Hornady has the smallest.
It's always good to keep brass separated by headstamp, because they also vary in volume quite a bit which can cause pressure issues.

There are other solutions, like screwing the die down further into the press. This might size the Vanguard brass down smaller at the web. But you also start fighting brass spring-back issues with this solution too.
You may find that a new die setup just for the Savage helps, especially if you run into shoulder bump issues.

Here's a link to a cheap digital micrometer that I use. Works great for this kinda thing.
Micrometer on Amazon

 

[PrairieHunter]

I agree that I should have started from a low point and worked my way up in this new rifle. That is my plan at some point to develop a custom load for this Savage just as I did with each of the Weatherby rifles. And all of the load development will be done using Fed brass kept from firing Fed factory ammo from only this rifle (like Dusty suggests).

However, with that said, I never fired anything in this new gun from a Nosler or Win case. But when I used the marker test as described, that brass had areas of rubbing whereas the Fed brass did not. That is what is confusing me. Would shooting that Nosler or Winchester brass in the Weatherby rifles, then resizing (in the same resizing die that I ran the Federal brass through) not produce identical sized cases? Why the difference between Federal and everything else?

 

[PrairieHunter]

Welcome, PrairieHunter.

This happens sometimes. The Savage chamber is probably tighter than the Vanguard chambers. or the Vanguard chambers are looser. And the die you are using is somewhere in the middle. However you want to look at it...
Did you try resizing the once fired brass in the Savage chamber to see if it has issues fitting back in the Savage chamber? If that works, the simplest solution is to just keep the brass separated by chamber.
From the sharpie marked brass looks like the sizing problem is down around the web of the case; where these problems usually show up. If you measure the cases at the web, with a micrometer, the problem will probably be evident.
It would be a good idea to keep track of the web size on the fired cases. You may find that they grow with each firing and the dies never resizes them back to SAAMI spec. To complicate it more, you will find unfired brass from all manufacturers have different dimensions at the web. I think Hornady has the smallest.
It's always good to keep brass separated by headstamp, because they also vary in volume quite a bit which can cause pressure issues.

There are other solutions, like screwing the die down further into the press. This might size the Vanguard brass down smaller at the web. But you also start fighting brass spring-back issues with this solution too.
You may find that a new die setup just for the Savage helps, especially if you run into shoulder bump issues.

Here's a link to a cheap digital micrometer that I use. Works great for this kinda thing.
Amazon product ASIN B07DNNX9Y3

Thank you Barrelnut. Your explanation helps a ton!

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

your savage has a floating bolt head , once it is unlocked and not in contact with the lug , the ejector plunger is pushing the case on an angle , rubbing the top on one side of the case and the bottom on the other , you could remove that spring loaded plunger and retest -- i think the federal didn't show signs based on differences on how you unlocked the bolt and slid it back or hardness or history of that brass-

ultimately i dont think those marks are an issue if you work up a load with its own dedicated brass , they look like normal extraction marks

 

[Seabeeken]

Simply put, dedicate one brand of brass for each rifle and develop a load for each rifle with that brass. Dont mix it all up since its fired formed for that rifle. I bump my shoulders .0015 and get great accuracy