new brass vs fire formed?

[Wheatgerm]

I bought 100 new pieces of brass and was wondering if the first time I load them up will they be not at accurate as the 2nd time around? I know fire formed brass is always better but don't really understand why or what it helps? Im brand new ti reloading so sorry if this is a somewhat dumb question. I just don't know if I need to hurry and load these new brass up and shoot them out or if they will be alright on the first load. Thanks for any help

 

[rscott5028]

Many folks get excellent results using virgin brass.

It's worth doing the proper prep on your brass the first time and collecting dope on your loads.

Pressures and results can change slightly after the first firing. So, that needs to be documented as well.

But, the point is that you don't gain much by filling them with a random load and shooting blindly into a mound of dirt just to fireform them.

-- richard

 

[boomtube]

Scott is correct, only self-styled "web gurus" make a big deal about such trivial issues. It seldom makes much difference, if any at all, and truly experienced reloaders know it. And that's true no matter how many leap in and say different; to the degree they may be correct IN THEIR LIMITED EXPERIENCE it's much more likely any accuracy difference was due to other factors than if their cases were "fire formed" or not.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Scott is correct, only self-styled "web gurus" make a big deal about such trivial issues. It seldom makes much difference, if any at all, and truly experienced reloaders know it. And that's true no matter how many leap in and say different; to the degree they may be correct IN THEIR LIMITED EXPERIENCE it's much more likely any accuracy difference was due to other factors than if their cases were "fire formed" or not.

+1
There are a few here that will argue against fired brass for the best groups. I'm getting 1/3 moa for three shots with either with limited prep. Clean 'em, trim 'em, uniform the pocket as you knock the carbon out(lyman tool kills two birds with one stone), and load 'em up again. No weighing or neck thinning is required for the most part. Keep your brass lots together though.

 

[Wheatgerm]

Thanks guys thats what I needed to hear. I was planning on getting my speeds and starting to try to shoot at some distance to see if my scope and ballistic calculator match up with my bullet drop.ect. but I needed to be sure that there wouldn't be a big diff between the 2

 

[Mikecr]

Be sure to come back & let us know how it worked out

 

[Wheatgerm]

I will for sure. Ill probably go out wens evening. I wish I could find a working chrono. I need to find out what my speeds are before I can be really accurate out at a distance

 

[Greyfox]

I have found that it depends on the rifle's chamber dimensions and/or the quality of the new brass. If the new brass is inconsistent, or the fire formed/sized brass has a different dimension then the new brass, you can see differences in your results. I have gotten excellent accuracy, and very low ES with virgin brass, but will never mix them when setting up for serious long range work unless they have been fully tested and prove to give similiar results. Small differences at 200 yards can be a meaningful at 1000.

 

[Mikecr]

Greyfox, you're obviously a self-styled web guru, and have yet to deny differences between new and fireformed brass cases..
It's as though you've noticed differences, or that many others have, and just don't get that our situations are suppose to be exactly the same.

OP is in a position to answer his own question, given that he will be fireforming brass anyway. And unless he plans to shoot only new brass, will also be shooting fireformed brass.
With 5 pieces of it, and any load, he can see if it will make a difference for him.

If it does appear to, then all is not a catastrophe either.
After all, with 100 new cases, he could roughly determine best seating depth and shoot a couple ladders with different powder.
And with all brass fireformed, sized, & as consistent as it's going to get, he can focus on the potential derived from his ladders. Shoot groups with a narrowed incremental load development & final tweak of seating.

But that's way out there,, having never been rationally thought of.
Sheet, we all mix new with old brass and just bang away at 1/3moa with it, right?

 

[flashhole]

Put me in the self-styled web guru bucket too.

I see a big difference with my 25-06. It came from Ruger with a generous chamber and groups shrink down considerably when using fire-formed brass when compared to new. In my case I believe fire-formed brass gives much better headspace when I control shoulder bump to .002". I also find regular annealing helps too. Maybe it will be too much to say I use a concentricity gage to identify errors/differences in my process and reduce runout ... that's gotta be over the edge.

 

[Mikecr]

that's gotta be over the edge.

This is just your LIMITED EXPERIENCE
Eventually, you'll be assimilated into an embracement of every shortcut in the world, and assuming same reward in it for all.

 

[flashhole]

Does assimilation hurt? I'm kinda delicate and even small amounts of trama to my Id will have a profound negative impact on my psyche.

 

[Greyfox]

Greyfox, you're obviously a self-styled web guru, and have yet to deny differences between new and fireformed brass cases..
It's as though you've noticed differences, or that many Gothers have, and just don't get that our situations are suppose to be exactly the same.

I'm not sure I get your point Mike. I stand by my post in which consistantcy is implicit. As to self styled web guru, don't know exactly what that is.

 

[flashhole]

In a roundabout way he was paying you a compliment for being an independent thinker willing to share your experience. Go back and read some of the earlier posts.