New Barrel Headspace Question

[Muddyboots]

My 50 year old Savage 110C .270 Win got a new barrel put on by local gunsmith but there is a question that he could not answer readily so here it goes.

I set the headspace of my brass using Stoney Point headspace gauges and also verify by removing firing pin assembly to validate case will cycle without any resistance. So after getting through 60 rounds of barrel break in, I was at bench sizing brass utilizing measurement and cycling method.

Here's the issue; when I cycled my bolt without firing pin with sized brass, I felt some resistance of the bolt when it was cammed over. I removed the brass and there was still same amount of resistance in bolt in the camming over of the bolt. All my other rifles never had any amount of resistance when the firing pin was removed so this was new territory for me. All my bolts were "floppy free" without the firing pin assembly. I put the "go gauge" in and there was same resistance in the camming over of the bolt without the firing pin assembly in the bolt.

I had also noticed there was some resistance in the bolt lift during break in and tried some factory and verified the bolt lift resistance even with factory rounds. I know my loads were in the middle of the pack loads just to get some rounds through the barrel.

I am thinking the "go gauge" is on the tight side of headspacing and the added bolt lift resistance is from insufficient headspace for normal brass expansion.

The barrel is shooting very well so not concerned over its accuracy but have some concern there is insufficient headspace for normal brass expansion which can affect reloading to a certain extent.

Do I have enough info here for someone to comment on next steps? I am thinking it needs just a couple thousands of tweak headspace adjustment. I know there is a wealth of knowledge here so appreciate any and all comments.
Thanks,
Muddy

 

[sedancowboy]

It would only matter if you can't resize your brass enough to fit in the chamber. Meaning if with the shellholder toughing the bottom of the die you still can't chamber the round. Measure a unfired shell and a fired with your SP headspace gauge. If the fired is a couple of thou. larger them you are good to go.

 

[den]

are you using the same scope bases as before the barrel install ? also I am not a gunsmith , but I don't think headspace affects the bolt closing on an empty chamber

 

[Muddyboots]

The headspace with an empty chamber can be an issue if the barrel is screwed in a hair too "tight". The bolt should have zero resistance when you close it, my bolt has resistance when you close it. The bolt will also close on the "go gage" with resistance which is what I found out when I was resizing my brass. Your bolt should be free and loose feel when you close it with the firing pin assembly removed. This method confirms to an extent you have sized the brass enough for clean feed. The Stony Point headspace gauges tell you exactly how far back you pushed the shoulder.

I did speak the the smith that actually worked on my rifle short while ago and he wants the rifle back ASAP. He agreed there should be no resistance at all in the bolt when firing pin assembly is removed. So looks like it will get tweaked next week. I will post back what he finds.

 

[1Moose]

Interesting to hear the outcome and learn a bit in the process. Good luck.

 

[J E Custom]

When Head spacing a cartridge, I always remove the firing pin assembly because the firing pin spring is loading the bolt and will give you a false reading/feeling.

I also always remove the ejector plunger because it also pushes on the case head and can also give you a false reading.

The only thing I leave on the bolt body is the extractor and I use it to hold the go gauge for insertion into the chamber. With the bolt stripped. This way the readings are very accurate and repeatable because there are no external or internal forces to alter the readings.

So if you removed the firing pin assembly, the slight resistance you felt was probably from the ejector plunger if using the go gauge. if your brass is not sized correctly for your chamber, then this could be the issue when using brass with or without the firing pin assembly or the ejector plunger.

J E CUSTOM

 

[AZShooter]

If I read this right you are getting resistance when you close the bolt on an empty chamber?

In third paragraph you said: " I removed the brass and there was still same amount of resistance in bolt in the camming over of the bolt."

If this is true, IMO your bolt face may be hitting the end of the barrel.

I found this link: http://www.switchbarrel.com/Savage FAQ.htm#ImportantNote
.


"The Savage Arms Company introduced the Savage 110 rifle in 1957. The original rifles were mechanically very similar to the Savage Rifles produced today except for the breaching system. The original system was similar to that of the Remington 700 with the barrel having a recessed breach that the bolt nose extended into. Savage advertised their rifle as protecting the shooter by surrounding the case head with three "rings of steel" – the barrel recess, bolt nose and the action.

Starting around 1967 Savage changed the 110 barrels so that the barrel ends were flat, with minimal head clearance similar to a Mauser breech. It is these rifles that parts and barrels are readily available and are the most suitable for customization."

Can you look at your original barrel? Or trace the age of your rifle to its exact age? Can you see a recess in your barrel? If there is a recess then perhaps it is not deep enough?

 

[den]

from some reading on Wikipedia if it is a pre 67 action it also should not have a plunger ejector in the bolt face but a standing ejector attached to the magazine

 

[Muddyboots]

The rifle was bought new in 1968 which kind of tells you how dang old I am. To clarify, the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed has resistance when closing the bolt on an empty chamber. It has the same resistance when closing on the go gauge as well. I appreciate the input since we all tend to have blinders on to certain degree if we really think we know what is going on.

JE - The bolt has resistance on an empty chamber, on the go gauge and no different on my brass that has shoulder set back 0.003 based upon the Stoney Point headspace gauges (now Hornady as most know). One missing point I didn't make was that when I verified my sizing of brass on my old barrel, there was no resistance when I closed the bolt with the firing pin assembly removed. This is one of the reasons I felt there is something not quite right with the new barrel headspacing.

AZ - your research is appreciated since it appears it to confirm the thought the barrel is touching the bolt. I've printed it out for reference as well. Thanks!!

I will be dropping the rifle off on Monday so hopefully there will be resolution next week. Appreciate all comments and suggestions!
Muddy

 

[Muddyboots]

OK, this was such an easy fix that it is embarrassing. I found some old thread locker, just a smidge that was just enough to give me the slight resistance I was feeling without the firing pin assembly in bolt when I closed on empty chamber. Worked up what I think is a pretty good load for a 50 year old wood stocked rifle. 130 gr. BT, ~3050 fps with RL-16.