NEW 6.5 WIN. LONG RANGE MAGNUM!!!

[apexmtnman]

I have three 264's, a pre 64 model 70 westerner, a Remington model 700 CDLSF and a custom Stiller with Manners stock and Broughton 8 twist barrel. The 9 twist barrels in the first 2 will stabilize Berger VLD's just fine. I load Retumbo in all of them and see 3200 fps in the 26 inch barrels and 3280 fps in the 28 inch Broughton with 140 gr Berger VLD's. Sighted on at 100 yards I have to come up 18.1 MOA at 1000 yards at my elevation here in Utah. I love the long in the tooth old 264, it's a flat shooting son of a gun and doesn't abuse your shoulder.
And for those that don't like a belt you just don't know how to set up your reloading dies.

 

[MagnumManiac]

All aspects of the new cases are better, steeper shoulder angle, longer case neck, more efficient case design

I don't see Rich using these old belted magnums for his cartridges and for good reason

I could be driving a 1950s designed truck but nope I like the new design truck, same thing with new more efficient designed cartridges, I like them.

This is the best statement I have ever heard.
You LIKE them, so they MUST be BETTER.

What a joke.

There is absolutely NOTHING that any NEW cartridge can do that the 264 has not been doing since 1958.
Also, the 264 has no trouble with a 9" twist stabilising 140gr bullets. ANY 140gr bullets.
Another thing that you have stated as your BELIEF is that non belted cartridges hold more powder. Show me how an '06 case holds more powder, or a 222 case for that matter.
I have cartridges that are much larger than belted magnums, but are they MAGNUMS?
I have 416 Rigby based 338-416 Rigby Improved with 45 degree shoulder, 404 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs, none are MAGNUMS. Just different cartridges.
Your beliefs DO NOT make things FACT.

Cheers.

 

[Weatherby Fan]

This is the best statement I have ever heard.
You LIKE them, so they MUST be BETTER.

What a joke.

There is absolutely NOTHING that any NEW cartridge can do that the 264 has not been doing since 1958.
Also, the 264 has no trouble with a 9" twist stabilising 140gr bullets. ANY 140gr bullets.
Another thing that you have stated as your BELIEF is that non belted cartridges hold more powder. Show me how an '06 case holds more powder, or a 222 case for that matter.
I have cartridges that are much larger than belted magnums, but are they MAGNUMS?
I have 416 Rigby based 338-416 Rigby Improved with 45 degree shoulder, 404 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs, none are MAGNUMS. Just different cartridges.
Your beliefs DO NOT make things FACT.

Cheers.

Well stop and think for a minute how many NEW belted cartridge have come out in the last 25 years ?
I'll bet you can guess......
And I own and have hunted with belted cartridges for years but if there's a better option in cartridge design I'm all for it that's all.

 

[User4302021]

If I didn't own either a 264 Win or one of the new 6.5 mags, what would be the compelling reason to purchase the old one?

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Solid question, why push a 264 if you could load a 26 Nosler mild for the same speeds

 

[stx]

If I didn't own either a 264 Win or one of the new 6.5 mags, what would be the compelling reason to purchase the old one?

Nostalgia!

 

[User4302021]

Nostalgia!

...and if I find nostalgia less than compelling?

 

[can1010]

component availability plenty of brass out there even use 7mm rem mag in a pinch. cost of components is reasonable. not to picky to reload. at 80 gr. case capacity is about max for 6.5 and still have reasonable barrel life. can handle the lighter bullets a little better than cases with 95-100 gr capacity. and for me it is what I grew up with and works

 

[stx]

...and if I find nostalgia less than compelling?

Just a comment! I have a soft spot for great old cartridges.....264 WM and 257 Roberts being my favorites....I've shot both over 40 years and grew up with my Dad shooting the 264 since they were first produced....late 50s or early 60s.

 

[yorke-1]

There is absolutely NOTHING that any NEW cartridge can do that the 264 has not been doing since 1958.

That's so easy dispute it's almost not worth doing, but I will anyways. I'd like to buy a box of factory loaded 264 Win Mag ammo loaded with a 140gr bullet at over 3200 fps.

Another thing that you have stated as your BELIEF is that non belted cartridges hold more powder. Show me how an '06 case holds more powder, or a 222 case for that matter.

Apparently everything has to be laid out very carefully for you, so I'll help out. A non-belted case will have a greater internal case capacity when compared to a belted case with the same rim and case head diameter, assuming comparable case taper and body lengths are used in both cases. Example: a 300 PRC has a greater internal case capacity than a 300 Win Mag despite the 300 Win Mag having a longer case body. A 30 Nosler wouldn't be an accurate comparison since it uses a larger head diameter.

I have cartridges that are much larger than belted magnums, but are they MAGNUMS?
I have 416 Rigby based 338-416 Rigby Improved with 45 degree shoulder, 404 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs, none are MAGNUMS. Just different cartridges.
Your beliefs DO NOT make things FACT.

Cheers.

The 264 Win Mag was the 6.5 Creedmoor of it's time. It was all just marketing hype, the belt included since at that time magnums had to have a belt to be cool. There were other cartridges out there before the 264 Win Mag that offered comparable performance. Winchester was just the Hornady of the day and sold people on marketing hype to move more product. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's foolish to believe that it's anything more than that. As far as the applying the term magnum, that's just a meaningless word added on to cartridge names. Again, just marketing hype.

It's kind of funny when you see that many of the same folks who hate Hornady for using hyperbole to market new products will cling so desperately to a cartridge sold using the same technique 60 years ago.

 

[apexmtnman]

"Well stop and think for a minute how many NEW belted cartridge have come out in the last 25 years ?
I'll bet you can guess......
And I own and have hunted with belted cartridges for years but if there's a better option in cartridge design I'm all for it that's all."

How many of the new super duper better designed non belted short mags have gone the way of the dinosaur?

I helped build a 26 Nosler for a friend of mine, built similar to mine and his accuracy load is actually 50 fps slower than my 264 load. Yes he can push it faster but his accuracy dropped way off.

 

[Badgerclaw]

Solid question, why push a 264 if you could load a 26 Nosler mild for the same speeds

Have you tried loading a 26 nosler, or 28 nosler, 7 rum, or 300 rum, mild? If you go too low in that big of a case, you hit pressure spikes because there is too much air in the case so the powder all ignites at once and burns almost instantly instead of throughout the barrel. The 264 can be loaded mild for low recoil, or can be loaded hot and almost keep up with the big 6.5's. And the brass doesn't cost $2.50 a piece! If money is not an issue and you specifically want to push heavy 6.5 bullets as fast as possible, the 26 nosler is great. The 264 can satisfy a wider range of loads at a MUCH lower cost

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Have you tried loading a 26 nosler, or 28 nosler, 7 rum, or 300 rum, mild? If you go too low in that big of a case, you hit pressure spikes because there is too much air in the case so the powder all ignites at once and burns almost instantly instead of throughout the barrel. The 264 can be loaded mild for low recoil, or can be loaded hot and almost keep up with the big 6.5's. And the brass doesn't cost $2.50 a piece! If money is not an issue and you specifically want to push heavy 6.5 bullets as fast as possible, the 26 nosler is great. The 264 can satisfy a wider range of loads at a MUCH lower cost

Nope I absolutely have not. Never owner one, never shot one, I don't think I've ever held one. Was truly asking. I am surprised it is that difficult when Nosler reloading for 26 nosler lists the most accurate powder tested with a 140 @3055

 

[okie man]

Show me a box of 6.5 creedmore that reaches 2900fps so many claim too get! Show me a box of 26/06 that gets 3200fps.as far as belts, size your brass off the shoulder and it doesn't even mater

That's so easy dispute it's almost not worth doing, but I will anyways. I'd like to buy a box of factory loaded 264 Win Mag ammo loaded with a 140gr bullet at over 3200 fps.


Apparently everything has to be laid out very carefully for you, so I'll help out. A non-belted case will have a greater internal case capacity when compared to a belted case with the same rim and case head diameter, assuming comparable case taper and body lengths are used in both cases. Example: a 300 PRC has a greater internal case capacity than a 300 Win Mag despite the 300 Win Mag having a longer case body. A 30 Nosler wouldn't be an accurate comparison since it uses a larger head diameter.


The 264 Win Mag was the 6.5 Creedmoor of it's time. It was all just marketing hype, the belt included since at that time magnums had to have a belt to be cool. There were other cartridges out there before the 264 Win Mag that offered comparable performance. Winchester was just the Hornady of the day and sold people on marketing hype to move more product. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's foolish to believe that it's anything more than that. As far as the applying the term magnum, that's just a meaningless word added on to cartridge names. Again, just marketing hype.

It's kind of funny when you see that many of the same folks who hate Hornady for using hyperbole to market new products will cling so desperately to a cartridge sold using the same technique 60 years ago.