muzzle loading for Antelope

[wildcat westerner]

I had some correspondence with a fellow hunter in NM some years ago. He had used a muzzleloader from a blind to take some impressive Antelope. I am finding that the archery season here, in a very good area is set way in advance of the rut, as opposed to all other western states I am aware of.
So, I am considering acquiring a muzzleloading firearm. Knowing nothing about ML and its capabilities with regard to accuracy, I would appreciate your insights as to: firearms and loads specifically tailored to longer distance shooting.
thank you,
WW

 

[cohunt]

just like any rifle-- try different bullets and different powders and primers too--each rifle shots different

I have a cva that shoots really well with power-belt platinum bullets, thor bullets by barnes, and federal bore-lokt--shoots pretty good with hornady fpb--all with BH209 powder ---- I don't like PB so I chose the one that loads into my barrel easier (FBL) as my go-to bullet and the thor as my back up. BUT here in CO you have to use non-magnified optics, so that really limits my range I hunt at. We also have to use loose powder and no sabots--check your hunting regs first as BP has some weird regs in different states. I hear many guys that are allowed to use sabots have good luck with them, but they take a bit more to get started down the barrel than a properly sized full bore bullet imho

IF I could use a scope, I can print 3/4" 3 sot groups at 100 yards with my cva, but I practice with what I hunt with which means open sights--I'm just not as good with open sights so I limit myself to 150 yards or less with my ML--my rifle shoots better than I can

 

[Elkeater]

I live in CO and have hunted speed goats with a muzzleloader. I didn't have a big issue getting close enough to kill one with open sights. In CO we have to use iron sights. I use 245gr. Aroetip powerbelts and a healthy charge of triple 7 in a CVA optima. That combo is good to 150 yards with the target sights I installed. I didn't hunt out of a blind. Took a couple tries but I killed one at 90 yards.

 

[cohunt]

I live in CO and have hunted speed goats with a muzzleloader. I didn't have a big issue getting close enough to kill one with open sights. In CO we have to use iron sights. I use 245gr. Aroetip powerbelts and a healthy charge of triple 7 in a CVA optima. That combo is good to 150 yards with the target sights I installed. I didn't hunt out of a blind. Took a couple tries but I killed one at 90 yards.

yup-- I used a cardboard cut out of a lope that I made-- during the rut, the bucks will come towards an "intruder" -- closest they got to my cut out was about 40-50 yards

heavy, fat ML bullets can kill further than I can shoot-that is for sure

the fpb is moving at 1950fps-- it shows a mpbr of 196 yards at my altitude and still has 982 ft lbs of energy at 400 yards--

watch the twist rate in your barrel, most ML now-a-days have twist rates that would for long heavy copper bullets, but some still have the slower twist rates for short conical bullets

here is a good article to read over https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/10-of-the-best-muzzleloader-bullets-for-hunters/

bar none, if you can use BH209 powder, it will get you the fastest velocities with the least amount of smoke and no dreaded "crud ring" --just make sure you clean properly no matter what powder you use

 

[rogerstv]

I purchased a T/C Encore Pro Hunter in .50 cal for whitetail hunting in Illinois. It shoots well, but the factory trigger was terrible. Accuracy was 2 MOA. Was hoping for better considering the cost. I sent the frame off for a trigger job. Reduced trigger pull to 2.5 pounds. Very nice now. Only shot it once since I got it back to re-zero scope. Can not comment on accuracy improvement yet.

If I were to do it again, I would do a couple things differently.

1 - Buy a barrel from someone other than T/C hoping for better accuracy. Although, I was told .50 cal isn't as inherently accurate as .45 cal. So, no need for a custom .50 barrel. I'm not so sure and would need to see firsthand to believe.

2 - Look into other muzzleloading rifles. Upper end CVA or the Remington would interest me. Lots of custom rifles using smokeless powder now.

I am shooting .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal sabot. Out west you need to tailor your setup to your regulations. So, you may be shooting cast bullets instead of sabots.

Muzzleloading is a wonderful hobby. I highly recommend it. Your best bet is to find someone with a bit of experience.

 

[ENCORE]

……………...So, I am considering acquiring a muzzleloading firearm. Knowing nothing about ML and its capabilities with regard to accuracy, I would appreciate your insights as to: firearms and loads specifically tailored to longer distance shooting.
thank you,
WW

First, what is you definition of "longer distance shooting" ?

Long distance.. means different things to different shooters. Some shooters feel that anything past 100yds is long range.
Most today consider ranges beyond 200yds as long range and targets are easily shot to 500yds, accurately.
However, a .50cal will not get you either the range or energy that a .45cal can provide, especially with the plentiful amount of bullets available.

With today's modern inline rifles, all are capable of shooting to 200yds with very good accuracy, some even great accuracy. There is no question that the .45cal rifles are more accurate at distance.

I'll suggest this...……. determine exactly what your...……. future...….. wants may be. This stuff can get addicting extremely fast. Some jump in with costs involved, then purchase a cheap rifle and scope combination, which may or may not give the owner what they're looking for.
After decades of this, its a lot easier buying what makes you happy, instead of what just satisfies you.

How far are you willing to go...……..???

 

[cohunt]

First, what is you definition of "longer distance shooting" ?

Long distance.. means different things to different shooters. Some shooters feel that anything past 100yds is long range.
Most today consider ranges beyond 200yds as long range and targets are easily shot to 500yds, accurately.
However, a .50cal will not get you either the range or energy that a .45cal can provide, especially with the plentiful amount of bullets available.

With today's modern inline rifles, all are capable of shooting to 200yds with very good accuracy, some even great accuracy. There is no question that the .45cal rifles are more accurate at distance.

I'll suggest this...……. determine exactly what your...……. future...….. wants may be. This stuff can get addicting extremely fast. Some jump in with costs involved, then purchase a cheap rifle and scope combination, which may or may not give the owner what they're looking for.
After decades of this, its a lot easier buying what makes you happy, instead of what just satisfies you.

How far are you willing to go...……..???

check your regs in the states you intend to hunt with-- 45 is a no-go for elk or moose in CO, must use 50 cal

as a note to the OP--if you are interested in a cva and you can wait until after hunting season, then check close out pricing at walmart after the hunting season is over--I bought 3 CVA's on close out at wally world, a blued wolf for $79 (ss were $99), a blued optima v2 with camo stock for $169, and a ss optima v2 with camo thumbhole stock for $199--changed the stocks on the blue & ss optima's and sold the blued optima and wolf for just under what I paid on all 3--ended up paying less than $50 out of pocket for my ss optima v2

 

[ENCORE]

check your regs in the states you intend to hunt with-- 45 is a no-go for elk or moose in CO, must use 50 cal

as a note to the OP--if you are interested in a cva and you can wait until after hunting season, then check close out pricing at walmart after the hunting season is over--I bought 3 CVA's on close out at wally world, a blued wolf for $79 (ss were $99), a blued optima v2 with camo stock for $169, and a ss optima v2 with camo thumbhole stock for $199--changed the stocks on the blue & ss optima's and sold the blued optima and wolf for just under what I paid on all 3--ended up paying less than $50 out of pocket for my ss optima v2

That's a great idea for entry level, but not for distance.

If the OP wants extended range and still keep within the .50cal regulations of archaic states regulations, then one rifle that will give both the .50cal bullet minimum and long range would be the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUM).
However with the RUM, I would highly recommend removing the OEM breech plug and replacing it with an Arrowhead Gen2 breech plug before even shooting the rifle. This combination will allow HEAVY charges of BH209.
The FURY Star Tip2 .50cal bullet shoot excellent from these rifles and you easily have a 400yd plus rifle with more than enough energy for antelope at that distance. You can send a 300gr bullet out the muzzle at 2,400fps. Well beyond what production rifles are capable of.

If...…….. you're not hunting any of the archaic states with PP regulations and consider a .45cal rifle, then either the Knight Mountaineer or Ultra-Lite with the 1:20 twists are excellent shooting and accurate rifles. These Knight rifles are wining every muzzleloader competition designed for modern PRODUCTION inline rifles. Sadly, CVA can't even show.

Want to go all out? Then a custom built .45cal is the way to go. If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money or time to do it over?
I'm sending .450", 300gr bullets out the muzzle of my custom at 2,900fps.

 

[cohunt]

We should probably find out which state hes hunting- in.....NM has 2 seasons for ml, std can use sabots and scopes, restricted deer season is more like CO regs- open sights, full bore etc.

"Archaic" or not, you have to go by the regs.

 

[KurtB]

Killed one last year with a 54 caliber custom Hawken shooting .530 roundball and 95 or so grains of pyrodex. Shot was at 100 yards give or take. Had a great time making a few stalks and finally got it pulled off. Planning on burning a pile of points some year in a quality unit.

Using a 58 caliber custom Hawken this year using 80 grains of Swiss for elk, bear, deer and antelope again. Roundball at .570. I can get within a 100 yards typically.

 

[ENCORE]

We should probably find out which state hes hunting- in.....NM has 2 seasons for ml, std can use sabots and scopes, restricted deer season is more like CO regs- open sights, full bore etc.

"Archaic" or not, you have to go by the regs.

One of these days maybe those state's hunters will band together and get the archaic rules changed and yes, one still is required to abide by the regulations. The days of the "mountain man" mentality are slim any more.
Try telling these young guys and gals, the future of hunting and shooting, that they have to use a side hammer or flint. Might as well ask them to use a dial phone and give up their "smart phone". Just another reason the young are not getting into muzzleloaders.

Unless one is required to have a completely open ignition system, still the RUM with iron sights would fall right into his wheelhouse. The RUM with open sights and the Gen2 breech plug would fulfill his requirements for LONG range, IF he's capable.
Another option would be the Ultimate Firearms BP Xpress, with its much better match grade Lothar Walther barrel. That too, IMO, requires the Gen2 breech plug replacement. Those rifles are accurate and extremely long range capable.

 

[KurtB]

I like the archaic rules and if I want to shoot a bullet at 2900 fps, I'll use one of my 6.5s. I hope CO never changes their rules regarding blackpowder seasons. Big fan of iron sights only blackpowder as it levels the playing field nicely.

 

[ENCORE]

I like the archaic rules and if I want to shoot a bullet at 2900 fps, I'll use one of my 6.5s. I hope CO never changes their rules regarding blackpowder seasons. Big fan of iron sights only blackpowder as it levels the playing field nicely.

And that my friend, is the exact mentality we need to eliminate to bring in more young shooters.
'My way or no way!'

We're loosing hunters and shooters all over the entire Nation and when you force someone to use a firearm they don't care about, they just return to their smart phone. We have enough problems right now in this country, without arguing or pressuring others into "our/my" way only.

Think of it this way..... the NMLRA average age of a member is 70yrs old. The old die hard blackpowder, iron sight guys are starting to realize they NEED the modern inline shooter. Its exactly why new aggs are being created each year by the NMLRA.

Here's the deal, its real and it can't be..... logically.... argued. There's positively no reason you can't hunt with blackpowder and iron sights, while Billy uses his modern inline with a scope at the same time.

 

[KurtB]

Let's just make it an archery season and a rifle season. You can use crossbows, compounds and recurves in archery. And you can use any kind of muzzleloader, handgun or rifle with any kind of sights for rifle. Problem solved.

The whole intention of developing muzzleloader seasons was for people to use 16x power scopes with 300 grain bullets going 2900 fps and killing velvet mule deer at 600 yards. Right?

So your last paragraph, that would apply to the "rifle" season. And we can all hunt with what we choose if we go that route. I'll ditch my Hawkens and go back to my 800 yard rigs happily then.