Muzzle Brake Questions

[Muddyboots]

I have a 300WSM build coming up in Q12020 and looking for some input. Recoil is not really an issue for me but if it helps LRH then I would be interested in any improvement. I am 6'4" 255 so I can absorb a lot of recoil nicely. I learned the hard way shooting slugs off bench with scope of 3" relief (ouch) many years ago in upstate NY before I moved to Midwest. I learned proper bench posture real fast to save nose and eyebrows and not look like I played hockey for a living.

General: 26" total length including muzzle brake on WSM SS barrel in comparison to a straight 24" SS barrel of same configuration. Assume a brake manufactured and is installed by a competent gunsmith.

I've heard about everything on brakes but decided it would be worthwhile to get some opinions from the LRH data bank of users.

This is just a hypothetical scenario for discussion. Contour or twist irrelevant.

Muzzle Brake Questions (no order of priority):

1. Do muzzle brakes increase velocity with the extra ~2" of barrel length?

2. Do brakes reduce velocity?

3. How difficult to clean?

4. Typical round count for cleaning? (Realizing powder plays huge role, just a general question)

5. Following up to above question – do the temp stable powders that seem to increase carbon fouling impact brakes more?

6. Do ports angled forward to reduce noise impact reduce recoil reduction as well as normal placement of ports?

7. OK, this is the ugly question: Do brakes affect accuracy negatively? This answer should be fun.

8. Do you add more barrel length to increase velocity plus the muzzle brake? If I want a true 26" barrel velocity performance then I need full 26" BEFORE the brake?

9. Better to have the brake threaded for removal? (Nice for suppressor)

10. If the brake is threaded for removal, how is the crown addressed in this scenario?

11. Do adjustable brakes work as well in recoil reduction as fixed brakes?

12. What crown is the best for the brake?

Finally, can anyone provide a really good link for muzzle brake 101 education that is not a sales pitch?
Looking forward to thoughts.
Muddy

 

[keithcandler]

I have a 300WSM build coming up in Q12020 and looking for some input. Recoil is not really an issue for me but if it helps LRH then I would be interested in any improvement. I am 6'4" 255 so I can absorb a lot of recoil nicely. I learned the hard way shooting slugs off bench with scope of 3" relief (ouch) many years ago in upstate NY before I moved to Midwest. I learned proper bench posture real fast to save nose and eyebrows and not look like I played hockey for a living.

General: 26" total length including muzzle brake on WSM SS barrel in comparison to a straight 24" SS barrel of same configuration. Assume a brake manufactured and is installed by a competent gunsmith.

I've heard about everything on brakes but decided it would be worthwhile to get some opinions from the LRH data bank of users.

This is just a hypothetical scenario for discussion. Contour or twist irrelevant.

Muzzle Brake Questions (no order of priority):

1. Do muzzle brakes increase velocity with the extra ~2" of barrel length?
NO
2. Do brakes reduce velocity? no

3. How difficult to clean? easy, spray them out with brake cleaner

4. Typical round count for cleaning? (Realizing powder plays huge role, just a general question) I rarely ever clean mine, have 7 different types

5. Following up to above question – do the temp stable powders that seem to increase carbon fouling impact brakes more? Hard to say, more powder in a particular round increasing carbon fouling on the brake

6. Do ports angled forward to reduce noise impact reduce recoil reduction as well as normal placement of ports? Y es, Gentry does an excellent job in this area, have half a dozen

7. OK, this is the ugly question: Do brakes affect accuracy negatively? This answer should be fun. 90% of the time, the weight on the end of the barrel has a very positive effect on accuracy. The weight makes for smaller amplitude of the frequency the barrel vibrates at. I have had one and one only muzzle break in my life that made accuracy worse. Harrells Precision makes a tuner brake, they are awesome to say the least.

8. Do you add more barrel length to increase velocity plus the muzzle brake? If I want a true 26" barrel velocity performance then I need full 26" BEFORE the brake? Yes

9. Better to have the brake threaded for removal? (Nice for suppressor) Yes, also many opt to epoxy the brake on or to use red lock tite to keep the brake from becoming loose

10. If the brake is threaded for removal, how is the crown addressed in this scenario?

Depends on the gunsmith, since brake protects crown

11. Do adjustable brakes work as well in recoil reduction as fixed brakes? I assume that you are referring to brakes where the gas can be turned off and on, I have no experience in this.

12. What crown is the best for the brake? opinions vary

Finally, can anyone provide a really good link for muzzle brake 101 education that is not a sales pitch?
Looking forward to thoughts.
Muddy

I can tell you this Muddy, if you use any brake with side discharge for laying on the ground and shooting, they are ungodly loud. The concussion on your head with any side discharge muzzle break is much louder than a radial brake where the holes are all the away around the dia of the brake. Side discharge brakes are very effective, but they are apt to cause hearing damage on the very first shot fired.

Gentry are the quietest brakes that I have used, but I have got used to hunting with electronic ear muffs.

 

[IdahoCTD]

The concussion doesn't really have to do with the side discharge or radial brake. It has to do with port angle. The more aggressive brakes have more concussion but they also reduce the most recoil.

To answer your questions:
1 No
2 No
3 Not really. A good brush and powder solvent will clean them up but ultra sonic cleaners are easier.
4 Depends on the powder volume and powder used
5 Not all temp stable powders increase fouling. Refer to answer 4.
6 If you angle ports forward it will reduce less recoil but have less concussion. Angled back reduces the most recoil but has the most concussion.
7 Very rarely to they cause accuracy issues. Like maybe 1 in 1000. Most of the time people are more accurate with a brake due to the reduced recoil. This all is based on the fact that the brake is installed correctly of course.
8 Correct. A muzzle brakes doesn't change the velocity like a suppressor.
9 It is better to have the barrel threaded. Clamp on brakes work but they also tighten the bore or create a choke which isn't the best.
10 ???? I dont understand what your asking. The crown is unchanged.
11 My adjustable brakes work slightly better then my fixed brakes because they cant be turned down so I make the ports bigger in them.
12 The crown doesn't matter. There is no proof a 11 degree "target" crown is more accurate then a 90 degree flat crown with or without a brake.

I pretty much laid out the workings of muzzle brakes in answering your questions. Ported or side discharge brakes are more effective then radial or drilled hole brakes. The direction of the ports effects concussion and effectiveness. Port design also effects the performance and the ability to control muzzle rise as do top ports. Top ports can be good or bad but are rarely perfect unless they are tuneable.

 

[Muddyboots]

IdahoCTD, Thanks for educating someone that has never been around brakes and appreciated the links especially the YT.

Couple last questions if you don't mind. When you remove a brake for cleaning such as in ultrasonic or just to get at easier manually, how do you insure the barrel harmonics are not changed or do the brakes snug up in same position? Do you put a witness mark anywhere to guide it? I understand the 0.001's of differences I am asking about but just a curiosity question.

OK, I lied, one more question: If the brake is not reinstalled into same position after cleaning, doesn't it affect POI since barrel "jump" will be slightly changed?

Liked the videos and helping a lot to make decision going forward.
Thanks again!
Muddy

 

[keithcandler]

Many Tactical brakes come with a crush washer. You use a new washer each time you take the brake on and off. If you do not use a new crush washer, the rotation of the ports change over time, with some tactical brakes.

You are over concerned with cleaning a muzzle break.

Radial and side discharge type of brakes that I use do not change the POI when they are re installed.

Muddy, I hope you listen to my advise on those side discharge muzzle breaks in how LOUD they are. NO way should you or anyone else EVER consider shooting a side discharge muzzle break with out hearing protection...or a radial brake either for that matter. So, make hearing protection part of your plan.

The current thinking of using short barrel rifles with side discharge muzzle breaks is fast tracking the use of hearing aids at a very early age.

 

[Muddyboots]

Keith, not even sure I want a brake at this time but wanted to gather as much info for an informed decision. Since I retired as Dir of Health Safety Environmental from a $100B company you are preaching to choir on hearing protection. I bring extra to range to insure those who show up have something or not shoot while I am there. I even hunt with Walker EMuffs just to make sure, only takes a second to put on. I have been lucky that at an early age I was taught to shoot with hearing protection or don't shoot at all. SO my hearing is actually pretty good for my age even after how many thousands of rounds. I already decided against the side discharge etc for very reason but being open minded to get data is always good to either refute or re-enforce your position. I am more intrigued by the concept of staying on target in scope with brake than anything else. I appreciate the depth of knowledge on this site and would be foolish not to solicit input from it. My lean right now is no for the 300WSM at this time but looking at a 338 something build down the road which may cause this to definitely come into play.
Thanks,
Muddy

 

[keithcandler]

Muddy, animals are a lot easier to kill than the internet would leade you to believe. Put a bullet in the right spot, animal is dead.

I killed cow elk with a 243 loaded with 100g partitions, weight went to around 550 lbs.

Many, many deer died in their tracks with a 243 loaded with 100g Hornady sp. to 350 yards, large Kansas and Nebraska bucks.

I would advise anyone worried about recoil to go down in caliber till you feel comfortable, as it would shock you what a 6.5x47 Laupa is capable of with a 125g Partition or a 127g Barnes long range.

 

[snox801]

Sounds like they have you covered.
I will tell you I notice no difference in radial brake or side port brakes for sound. They are both loud. That being said once you shoot with one you will never want to hunt or shoot without one. Just need hearing protection which you should use anyway. I even have brakes on my .223. It makes spoting very easy and you can develop good habits and shoot more.

 

[Muddyboots]

Keith, totally agree on "enough" gun. Recoil was never the question for me but could the brake provide a better result relative to keeping on target and so on. But if first shot DRT then what does it matter! I like shooting my Sendero in 300WM since it will hit anything I can see for most part. If I do my part. But was thinking about seeing the hit. I actually did on a bull with the 300WM since it was smacked point on shoulder at about 175 yds. I actually saw bull lift off his feet in scope and never twitched when hit ground. Sight I will never forget. But was thinking a brake might do that for lighter rifles like the 300WSM build I have coming up. I like hunting with a lot of different rifles. Its funny but I hunt in southern MI with a .357 Max Encore rifle and so light and does the job nicely. I like shooting my slug gun too, guess I am a masochist with recoil. I reload my own slugs so it is cost effective and they shoot ridiculous at 100 yds. I learned quite a bit on brakes in last couple days that will help finalizing the decision. This is why I like reading on this site; so much information and everyone is willing to share it.

 

[keithcandler]

I call BS in being no difference between side port and radial brakes, I have 4 Side port brakes, and more of the radial brakes.

You are right in the fact that they are all loud with Gentry being the quietest among them all.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I bet your experiencing concussion not loudness. There is a huge difference. A bunch of small holes lowers the concentrated concussion. Think about it for a second.....how does a brake make a gun louder unless it makes it somewhat like a whistle. This has been hashed out for years and guys have tested it up one side and down the other. Perceived noise is not the same as a actual db increase.

To answer the questions asked.....If the brake is timed off of the shoulder, as any properly installed brake should be, it will re-time when it is taken off and re-installed. If it is installed with crush washers or shims you try to tighten it up to the same position. If it off slightly it typically won't change POI where you would notice it.

 

[YZ-80]

Muddy, animals are a lot easier to kill than the internet would leade you to believe. Put a bullet in the right spot, animal is dead.

I killed cow elk with a 243 loaded with 100g partitions, weight went to around 550 lbs.

Many, many deer died in their tracks with a 243 loaded with 100g Hornady sp. to 350 yards, large Kansas and Nebraska bucks.

I would advise anyone worried about recoil to go down in caliber till you feel comfortable, as it would shock you what a 6.5x47 Laupa is capable of with a 125g Partition or a 127g Barnes long range.

I agree. I think brakes are cool looking and have been somewhat enlightened by reading this thread. To some degree they are useful, and on the other hand they seem like they can be a marketing gimmick. I've got a Custom Savage Predator in 6.5-284 with a 26" fluted medium profile barrel (no brake). It's a tank, but a real pussycat to shoot due to all that weight absorbing the kick.

I wonder sometimes why someone would opt for a break on a heavier Long Range rig unless it was something really big? That said, I can see why you would have one on something like a Ridgeline to save weight, which is the purpose of the gun.

For me, I think brakes are something to avoid and I'm comfortable with myself in this regard.

 

[Kimber7man]

I shot at a buck twice without ear protection with my Vias braked rifle. Two years ago. The ringing in my right ear has not stopped and I can discern the hearing loss at night.

I hunt with ear plugs tied to my hat so I can just plug my ears in a hurry. This buck just popped out and I didn't have the time to put them in.

Don't do what I did!

 

[lancetkenyon]

Every centerfire hunting rifle I own (except my 24" Varminter AR) has a side port brake.
9.5# 6CM
10# 25SST (will have next week)
10.5# 6.5SLR
9.0# 6.5SS
10.5# 6.5SS
8.75# .280AI
9.5# 7RM
15.5# .300RUM

Luckily, I am more deaf from the teenage years of ridiculously loud car stereos and a near fatal hunting accident, so a single shot while out hunting with no ear protection with a braked rifle does not bother me. But all recreational shooting is definitely with good hearing protection.

I find the reduced recoil and ability to stay on target in the scope is a huge benefit while hunting and shooting.

I hate radial brakes. They kick up too much dust/sand/rocks/debris that blows all over your rifle and in your face.