Model 70 safety problem

Ol' Red

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Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
I just installed a Timney trigger on my post 64 Winchester model 70. Now the safety is stuck in fire position. The last thing mentioned in the instruction sheet is " may have to adjust the safety". I could use some advice from some who has been here.
 

Frog4aday

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Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
1,015
Location
Texas Hill Country
Went to Timney website & got this guidance:
NOTE: On rare occasions, the safety needs to be adjusted on the model 70 bolt. If your safety is not operating properly, contact Timney or check out the troubleshooting steps on the Timney web site.

That didn't help much. Poked around some more and found this (see attached).
 

Attachments

Ol' Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
You're being punished for replacing the best single stage trigger ever made with something that will pack up if you don't keep surgically clean.
It was worn out. Even clean it broke from 4.5 Lbs down to 2.3 Lbs. When that started, groups opened up badly. Looking back tonight, I wish I would have got another Winchester trigger.
 

Ol' Red

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Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
Went to Timney website & got this guidance:
NOTE: On rare occasions, the safety needs to be adjusted on the model 70 bolt. If your safety is not operating properly, contact Timney or check out the troubleshooting steps on the Timney web site.

That didn't help much. Poked around some more and found this (see attached).
Thank you. I know what I will be doing tomorrow.
 

B-LOT Banga

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Aug 11, 2018
Messages
365
Location
Hawaii
*** I’m not a gunsmith nor I portray to be one, I’m just an average Joe with nothing else better to do with my time at home.... this is what I found and it’s only my opinion from my own experiments and you should consult with a qualified and competent gunsmith****

Rifle- My sons rifle a Winchester 70 270 weatherby mag with a timney trigger conversion.

Problem- trigger is stuck on fire and won’t engage with in cocked or fired position.

Observation- when cocked I noticed the firing pin (shroud part that sticks out the back when cocked) is shallower than my other rifles WITH factory triggers and exactly the same as one with a timney trigger that I bought long ago. Not by much but noticeable.

My guess- is that with the trigger conversion the firing pin rests on the sear much deeper than the factory firing pin, thus having the firing pin moved slightly forward preventing the 3 way safety from working as it should, as it operates with almost zero play. It would be a disaster if there was wiggle room, the trigger was accidentally hit while on safety disengaging the sear and come to rest on the safety and firing when the safety is switched off because it’s already off the sear.

The fix- this is my “backyard” fix and most people will cringe but it works!!!! So I took the bolt apart and took off the spring. Took out the firing pin and filed the angled notch VERY LITTLE AT A TIME where the safety post rotates. After around 20 or so times assembling, disassembling and testing I finally got to make it work!!!! I tried to bump fire, whack it with a rubber mallet and it didn’t fire until I switched the safety off and pulled the trigger.

Regrets- I should had taken measurements before and after so I could keep as reference so I could change triggers in my other rifles and see if it’s consistent or backs up my theory. Anyways it now works and now I will feel safer when my son uses his rifle because it’s a hammer!!!

I hope this helps.... good luck!!
 

Ol' Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
*** I’m not a gunsmith nor I portray to be one, I’m just an average Joe with nothing else better to do with my time at home.... this is what I found and it’s only my opinion from my own experiments and you should consult with a qualified and competent gunsmith****

Rifle- My sons rifle a Winchester 70 270 weatherby mag with a timney trigger conversion.

Problem- trigger is stuck on fire and won’t engage with in cocked or fired position.

Observation- when cocked I noticed the firing pin (shroud part that sticks out the back when cocked) is shallower than my other rifles WITH factory triggers and exactly the same as one with a timney trigger that I bought long ago. Not by much but noticeable.

My guess- is that with the trigger conversion the firing pin rests on the sear much deeper than the factory firing pin, thus having the firing pin moved slightly forward preventing the 3 way safety from working as it should, as it operates with almost zero play. It would be a disaster if there was wiggle room, the trigger was accidentally hit while on safety disengaging the sear and come to rest on the safety and firing when the safety is switched off because it’s already off the sear.

The fix- this is my “backyard” fix and most people will cringe but it works!!!! So I took the bolt apart and took off the spring. Took out the firing pin and filed the angled notch VERY LITTLE AT A TIME where the safety post rotates. After around 20 or so times assembling, disassembling and testing I finally got to make it work!!!! I tried to bump fire, whack it with a rubber mallet and it didn’t fire until I switched the safety off and pulled the trigger.

Regrets- I should had taken measurements before and after so I could keep as reference so I could change triggers in my other rifles and see if it’s consistent or backs up my theory. Anyways it now works and now I will feel safer when my son uses his rifle because it’s a hammer!!!

I hope this helps.... good luck!!
B-Lot Banga, I am not a gunsmith either, but I like to play around as a hobby. I am finding out that this problem is common on Timney conversions. I do know a couple good gunsmiths, so just have to decide if I take to one of them or or work on it today at home. Thanks for the information.
 

shortgrass

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
2,667
Location
Western Oklahoma
*** I’m not a gunsmith nor I portray to be one, I’m just an average Joe with nothing else better to do with my time at home.... this is what I found and it’s only my opinion from my own experiments and you should consult with a qualified and competent gunsmith****

Rifle- My sons rifle a Winchester 70 270 weatherby mag with a timney trigger conversion.

Problem- trigger is stuck on fire and won’t engage with in cocked or fired position.

Observation- when cocked I noticed the firing pin (shroud part that sticks out the back when cocked) is shallower than my other rifles WITH factory triggers and exactly the same as one with a timney trigger that I bought long ago. Not by much but noticeable.

My guess- is that with the trigger conversion the firing pin rests on the sear much deeper than the factory firing pin, thus having the firing pin moved slightly forward preventing the 3 way safety from working as it should, as it operates with almost zero play. It would be a disaster if there was wiggle room, the trigger was accidentally hit while on safety disengaging the sear and come to rest on the safety and firing when the safety is switched off because it’s already off the sear.

The fix- this is my “backyard” fix and most people will cringe but it works!!!! So I took the bolt apart and took off the spring. Took out the firing pin and filed the angled notch VERY LITTLE AT A TIME where the safety post rotates. After around 20 or so times assembling, disassembling and testing I finally got to make it work!!!! I tried to bump fire, whack it with a rubber mallet and it didn’t fire until I switched the safety off and pulled the trigger.

Regrets- I should had taken measurements before and after so I could keep as reference so I could change triggers in my other rifles and see if it’s consistent or backs up my theory. Anyways it now works and now I will feel safer when my son uses his rifle because it’s a hammer!!!

I hope this helps.... good luck!!
There would be no use in "taking measurements, before and after", each is a hand fit situation. Go to far, and you are SOL needing a new firing pin. The only ones to be found are at Midwest Gun Works, and they want to do the install, they won't send you the firing pin. Tubbs offers a replacement, but you are into another "hand fit and finish" situation. It's a 'speed lock' pin, besides, and 99% of the time the speed lock does more harm the good in the accuracy department. I am a gunsmith, a school trained one, with 30yrs of bench experience......
 

Ol' Red

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Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
Ol'Red, I have several original Model 70 trigger assemblies, but installing one may not solve your safety problem.
Shortgrass, I have the old trigger and may install it back on the action today to see if the safety works again. Everything operated good before the trigger swap. The old trigger was worn out and was changing trigger pull even after cleaning, but the safety worked. I might just package the rifle action and ship to Timney or to a local gunsmith that I know well. I am finding out that this is common with this trigger swap. No loaded ammo will be in this rifle until 100 per cent correct. Again thank you
 

Ol' Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
158
Location
Wyoming
I have a 1937 M 70 30-06 Target rifle that is on its second barrel. Trigger works just fine. Cannot imagine how something as simple as a M70 trigger could be "worn out". (Unless it has been messed with)

Numrich has all the parts to rebuild it.
I have been rebuilding automatic transmissions in vehicles for over 39 years for a living. People bring their vehicle in to have it diagnosed and we find it needs a major repair. A common response is" I bought this brand vehicle because they never wear out or break.". Some last 750,000 miles or more and some break early. If it is mechanical it can and will fail eventually. I bought this rifle from a pawn shop over 23 years ago, and it too is on it's second barrel. I agree that a Model 70 trigger is hard to beat, but I drank the Kool-Aid and went with a Timney. Today I will put the old trigger back in and see if the safety function properly. Then decide if I take it to a smith to have the safety matched to the trigger or replace with an original trigger. Thank you for the heads up on Numrich.
 

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