Mike Rock or Lothar Walther? >> For .308



Having a gun built as we speak. In terms of accuracy and longevity, which performs better?

I'm really looking for specific information - not second hand opinions or conjecture. I know both are capable of 1/2"@100 easy, and they're within $10 of each other.
I believe the LW are polygonal rifled while the Mike Rock are cut conventional rifling.

I've had both polygonal (Pac-Nor and Harris Gun Works) and cut conventional (Mike Rock) and find that there are differences. The polygonal barrels I've tested with monometal bullets (Barnes and Lost River) don't perform as expected or to nearly the accuracy they exibit with copper jacket lead. I don't shoot or test any solid monometal bullets out of these type barrels any more as these bullets don't seem to take kindly to be re-sized to the smaller barrel inside dimensions nominally .307nnn. Pressures go high when using the monometal bullets with published "safe" loads and it's been counter-productive as far as I'm concerned. If you're not going to use solid bronze/brass/alloy bullets it's probably not an issue.

The conventional rifled barrels seem more forgiving in the bullet size department and are nominally .308 I.D..

Accuracy between the two types seems to be similar when using copper-jacketed bullets... There are reports that the polygonal barrels are "faster" and more resistant to throat erosion... I haven't been able to do a side-by-side comparison but haven't seen anything to dismiss these claims either.

Hope this helps a bit.
As personal choice in US barrel maker for long range purpose
PAC NOR in 3 groove
G Schneider in polygonal rifling

good shooting

Not all LW barrels are polygon, they only offer a few calibers in polygon. They offer 308, 30-06, 222 and 223.
However if you want to get a barrel in ploygon rifiling that they do not offer you can but you have to order 10 of them.
I wanted a 338 barrel in a 30 inch length but I'm not going to pay $1750.00 for ten barrels. Thats an idea though if any of you are interested in 338 polygonal barrels maybe we could get ten people together and order them?
Rock all the way his 30 barrels flat out shoot any other 30 cal barrel. LW barrel's might be capable of 1/2 but I am getting sub 1/4 in almost all of my 308 on Rock barrels.

[ 10-07-2003: Message edited by: chris matthews ]

Pac Nor makes a .338 in polygonal in you're looking.


I have one of the G Schneider polygonal in .243... It's chambered in 243 Win and shoots very well with the 107MK, 105 Lapua and A-Max.
Chris and the boys at GA Precision have alot more experience with Rock Barrels that I have.

What I can say about Rock Barrels. There are only 2 employees that build barrels for Rock Creek Barrels. Mike Rock and Kim Theiler. I have never met anyone who is more enthusiastic about what they do for a living. Mike LOVES what he does, Barrels are Not a business to Mike & Kim, ITS THEIR LIFE.

When I was looking for a Barrel, I called Mike, he took his time educating me on barrel making process. Then he invited me to the shop. Please Note: Mike did not know me from Adam...I am a complete stranger.

I went about 6 weeks later. Mike took a barrel blank up, took a few measurements, handed it to me asked if this is the one will do. They all looked the same to me. First we contoured the barrel, then fluted it, rifled it and lapped it. The whole time Mike is taking measurements and explaining the process's to ensure that the end product is within tolerances.

This is the service that Mike provides for the same price as the others.

I consider it an Honor to shoot his barrels.

The Walther match barrels are good, but are produced in a uncommon steel which does give some gunsmiths fits...considered by some to be a superior barrel steel. I researched the steel once and it's proprietary made in europe.
You will not go wrong with a Rock barrel. I had one of his 5R (radus land to groove juncture) barrels (Stoner SR-25) and was impressed.
Myself....I would get the Rock barrel.

I hate to say things this way but, here goes. When it comes to custom barrels like the two that you have mentioned, there both are going to be excelant shooters. The barrel harmonics are going to have to be tuned so to speak. What I mean is your are going to have to do load developement. Once you have found the right bullet, brass,powder charge.Then the only question after all of that is can you shoot to the level of the rifle. The majority of shooters that get custom rifles are not capable of shooting it to the level of the rifle. Back to your question pick one which ever it is shoot it untill you need a new barrel then if you weren't happy with the one you had buy the other.
Whether the "R" stands for Russian, Radius or Raped-Ape, I believe that Mike's barrels are as good as they come. We are shooting Rocks a lot these days in a big bullet test and the barrels are shooting sub-1/2" with consistency - if we hold the rifle decent. Plus they clean up with no effort at all.

Last week Mike's barrels accounted for several +500 yard kills on mule deer, plus one at over 700. My buddy Wayne (George and Marty know him) shoots a 26" Mike Rock barrel on his custom Rem. and I hunted with the very evil ROCK. Tell George that my "ROCK-rifle" just keeps piling them up. The ROCK placed a 150 grain Hornady Interbond right behind the shoulder of a small mule deer fawn last week at 520 yards in very substantial wind. This was during a CWD cull hunt. The ROCK is going culling again next week, more mulies will be biting the dust. The fawns are edible without testing, apparently they cannot have CWD but the gov't wants them shot to reduce deer numbers.

As mentioned, Mike is a very good guy, one of the most dedicated people I have ever met. He is completely passionate about his trade, "art" would probably be a more correct term. I believe the same can be said about Danny Lilja, another very fine person and superb craftsman. They are unique individuals - seems that runs in the barrel making fraternity.
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