Lowering "RECOIL" for hunting & Shooting

[Debo]

Hi everyone I'm new here, Just got asked to go "ELK" hunting here in NV. I was told I need to get a "Accurate" gun for at least 500Yards shots. It also needs to be a big enough round to produce a "One" shot kill. I'm handicapped by having 5 bad disks in spine from accident and a messed up hand, (some fingers amputated on left hand) I was told that I need to get a 7mm-Mag or Larger Cal. to perform best. I have been told that the 300-Mag is the best cal for what I'm looking for... What are your thought on that as well as, I have been looking for the "LOWEST" Recoil accurate gun to fit the bill... I've looked at semi-auto that supposed to have low recoil stocks, (Like Benelli-R1) but many say they are not accurate at all over 100yards... So, many have suggested the Savage-110BA as the perfect gun for me. What are you thoughts on that, or is there any other guns out there that would have less "recoil" in the 300-Mag and be as or better in accuracy and Price? If that is the gun for me, what would you recommend to reduce the recoil even more than what comes with it? I'm also looking at putting a "Burris" Eliminator 3 scope on it to do all the wind and drop calculations for me... As I want a one shot, one kill, as always... I used to shoot out to 600+yards years ago all the time with a 7mm-Mag Rem. But sold it many years ago, because all of the places I hunted went to Shotgun only and I didn't like that it kept taking longer and longer to recover from a day of shooting. I've hunted for over 45+years!! I now have a bolt in shoulder with arthritis and can't take the punishment I used to inflict... I seem ok with the Savage 110BA if I can handle the recoil as the weight shouldn't be much of a factor as I'm 6'1 270LBs and have a Polaris Ranger "Crew" 6-person Quad that will carry My guide & me and my equipment 99% of the way... I just need something I can fire at least 5-10 rounds a week to choose the right ammo for that gun, and to season the barrel without messing up my shoulder, and then maybe 10-20 rounds a week just before Hunting season to be able to judge the wind properly and to get the scope dialed in with the right ammo... Also if there is anyone anywhere near the LasVegas area that has one that is willing to let me try it to see if I can shoot it at all, so I don't spend over $3,000.00 on a gun I can't shoot... )) That would be "Great"... Please let me know... (I'll pay for Gas & Ammo) I can't wait for your thoughts and responce's!!!

 

[WildRose]

You might want to give serious consideration to a Browning BAR in 30-06.

Of course a good 7mm Mag or 300wm bolt gun with a good muzzle brake will not eat you up either.

With 500yds being your max range the 06 though will certainly get the job done.

 

[Debo]

I don't know what the Max yardage will be, but he said to get a Accurate gun at least to 500 yards... So, your saying that the Savage 110BA kicks too much? And the browning BAR in 30-06 would be a lot more accurate and with a lot less recoil than the 110BA and have more or same knockdown power as the 110 with the 300-Mag??

 

[WildRose]

I don't know what the Max yardage will be, but he said to get a Accurate gun at least to 500 yards... So, your saying that the Savage 110BA kicks too much? And the browning BAR in 30-06 would be a lot more accurate and with a lot less recoil than the 110BA and have more or same knockdown power as the 110 with the 300-Mag??

No I'm just saying that out to 500yds the 06 has all you need to kill an Elk and with less recoil than the 300wm by a good bit.

The BAR is an inherently accurate weapon within that range as well.

Put a good muzzle brake on either and the recoil should be quite tolerable especially with a limbsaver or similar recoil pad added to the mix.

The Semi Auto action has it's own built in recoil reduction system since the gas and springs act as a gas powered shock absorber in a way as the action cycles.

All that being said my little six and eight year old nieces had no trouble shooting my sporter weight 7mm Mags 1 each remington 700bdl and Mod 70 classic. Each were shooting the same 162gr bullets and each with a good custom muzzle brake.

Another good option would be the .264wm in a similar setup as far ans the limbsaver and muzzle brake are concerned.

Heck at that range I wouldn't hesitate to use the .260 Rem to be honest.

Unlike some of the stories you'll hear, Elk are just animals, not magical monsters than require massive amounts of energy from large projectiles traveling at warp speed to bring them down.

Use a quality hunting bullet and put it where it belongs and they will die.

 

[COBrad]

The '06 will work fine at 500 yards. Use 180 gr. bullets. Personally, I prefer the 7 rem mag. I would suggest this rifle with 160 gr. bullets. It will have plenty of range and power, and it won't kick too hard. You could put on a muzzle brake and reduce the recoil even more.
You're going to hear a lot of comments about the .300's, and even some bigger calibers. They are great rounds, but not necessary.
I have to ask, who said you need a rifle capable of 500 yard shots? I guided elk hunts for almost 30 years. Our average elk was shot at less than 200 yards. I was a licensed outfitter for 9 of those years and used to tell my clients that if they were not already shooting a magnum they should probably just bring the deer rifle they were already proficient with.
Shot placement is everything, magnum power only buys you more range, In my less than humble opinion.

 

[Debo]

COBrad: The person taking me hunting is the one who said that I needed a a gun that was accurate at 500 yards, So I don't know if that is the "average" yardage or "Minimum" yardage as I haven't even see the area where he hunts. (Yet) All I can go buy is what he said, and I know he uses a 300 Ultra Mag for his gun. He said that I should get a 7mm-Mag or larger cal., if I can handle it...And I'm not sure if you are talking about the Savage 110BA or the Browning BAR the other guy was talking about... I do think the 110 does come with a muzzle break... Most people have told me that the semi-auto's are not as accurate as the bolt action Savages?? All I know is I can't afford to have 300 Bazillion guns like most of you. I have 1 Shotgun for birds, and Deer (Have 2 barrels 1 for Birds/Skeet and a Rifled Slug barrel for deer) I do have 2 .22 rifles My "first" gun and one I take my grand kids out to shoot with. Then I have a couple of Pistols for my CCW and that it... I need "one" gun now that will cover "All" other hunting/shooting needs for now, and I want to someday get a M4 type gun in the .233 just to take to the range with my grand-kids to practice with Plinking... (in a few years if I can afford it) So, again, if your talking about the Browning BAR, is that gun is more accurate than the Savage 110BA at 500 yards +++??? And by the time I put a muzzle brake and recoil pad on it what would be the cost? Aprox? And would the 06 reach out to lets say 1000 yards and be a "Great" knockdown Elk or anything gun, if 500 was the "Minimum"?? As again, I don't know excatly what the yardage would be... So I need something that will work for any "Long-Range" shot for anything in North-America... Then I don't have to worry about not having enough gun for the task, and have to buy another gun because I didn't choose the right one on this gun purchase... I just need to find a way to reduce the recoil of the 300. Mag... I think the majority of people said I need the 300.Mag for long distance "Elk" or anything, some say 338.LM or some said 7mm-mag, few others said as you the 30-06, or 308. or some even said 270. or the 270wsm. Then a few had some others I don't know, Maybe Russian cal. or something. But I think I'm staying with the 300.mag, but want to find the "lowest-Recoil" **Accurate** gun out there.(Without spending a Bazillion Dollars) Can't spend over $2,000. on gun as the Scope I want is around $1,200. Extra And I need that scope.... If I do good on this hunt I may also do some Mule-Deer with him as well as other Hunting out here... So I want a gun to hunt anything at any range that doesn't hurt me to shoot... )) If you had a bad shoulder that was Very sensitive to the touch and could only have one gun to hunt "anything"(Elk, Moose, Bear, Rams?) at "any" yardage, out to 1,200 yards (Scopes limit) what would you own???

 

[Dr. Vette]

If you're going on a guided hunt of any type (paying an outfitter) many of them do not allow semi-auto rifles because of the possibility of jamming as well as other reasons. It's just something to be aware of.

The 4-12x42 Burris Eliminator - if that's really the type of scope you want - would probably work just fine for you and save you $500 over the 4-16x50. You will have no problem with 12 power at 500 yards on an elk.

I'm assuming you will need to think about weight considerations. Have you thought about the Savage Long Range Hunter which comes with a nice cheek piece as well as a muzzle brake? At around $750-800 street price it's a great deal. Alternatively, pick out a different Savage of your choice and install your own cheek piece and preferred muzzle brake for under $1000. Many people find the thumbhole style of stock helps to decrease recoil, so a Savage 111 BTH in 30-06 with a muzzle brake added would give you the best of both worlds.

There are many ways that you can go here. I think you need to consider what type of stock you want, weight and caliber, and then go from there. Anything from 270/30-06 to 300WM to 300WSM or 338-06 would do the job for you with no problem, especially with a brake. My hunting/business partner has had neck surgery and uses brakes on his rifle with no problem at all.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Damascus]

I think you almost answered your own question lol - 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag. Both would work wonderfully, with the .300 giving it a little more thump.

A lot of people are advocating the .30-06 - and it is a great, probably one of the best, all-around hunting rounds... However, since long range is of importance to you, I would DEFINITELY welcome the extra power of the .300 Win Mag at 500+ yards... Lets just say you see a trophy elk standing at 800 - 900 yards, no wind, perfect shot... I'd much rather be sending a 180+gr. 30 caliber bullet at 3200 fps rather than 2800... That being said, even with using the 7mm Rem Mag vs. .30-06 - I would much prefer the 7mm's flatter trajectory, higher sectional density, and added penetration capability (160+gr).

There is a reason the .300 Win Mag as accounted for more game than any other cartridge in the world. Most people think it's the old '06, but not anymore. The .300 is the top, and is even widely used in Africa.

Mentioned earlier, the .264 Win Mag is a good long range hunting round choice, although factory ammo selection is limited, and they are hard on barrel throats.

With a good, effective muzzle break installed, a .300 Win Mag would be extremely pleasant to shoot, bringing the recoil down to something like a .308 Win or even less.

No matter which caliber you choose, the MOST important factor here is BULLET SELECTION! You MUST NOT skimp here... Cheap bullets perform poorly, breaking apart, fragmenting, jacket separation - all leads to wounded game... the animal deserves more respect. One of my favorite loads in .300 Win Mag is the 180gr. Barnes TSX and Tipped-TSX. My long range deer rifle, a Win M70 Laredo in .300WM (or at least started life as one), has a name ever since I started hunting with the TSX's; "Thor's Hammer" Anything I hit with it drops dead as if it were smashed by Thor himself lol. Other good bullets for larger game at long range are the Hornady Interbond, Berger Hunting VLD, Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped series, and Nosler Accubond... although nothing that I have ever tested works as well as the Barnes TSX/TTSX's, I haven't tested the Maximum Range version, MRX, yet... and NO, I don't work for Barnes LOL...

I hope this helps, and have a great time!

 

[WildRose]

COBrad: The person taking me hunting is the one who said that I needed a a gun that was accurate at 500 yards, So I don't know if that is the "average" yardage or "Minimum" yardage as I haven't even see the area where he hunts. (Yet) All I can go buy is what he said, and I know he uses a 300 Ultra Mag for his gun. He said that I should get a 7mm-Mag or larger cal., if I can handle it...And I'm not sure if you are talking about the Savage 110BA or the Browning BAR the other guy was talking about... I do think the 110 does come with a muzzle break... Most people have told me that the semi-auto's are not as accurate as the bolt action Savages?? All I know is I can't afford to have 300 Bazillion guns like most of you. I have 1 Shotgun for birds, and Deer (Have 2 barrels 1 for Birds/Skeet and a Rifled Slug barrel for deer) I do have 2 .22 rifles My "first" gun and one I take my grand kids out to shoot with. Then I have a couple of Pistols for my CCW and that it... I need "one" gun now that will cover "All" other hunting/shooting needs for now, and I want to someday get a M4 type gun in the .233 just to take to the range with my grand-kids to practice with Plinking... (in a few years if I can afford it) So, again, if your talking about the Browning BAR, is that gun is more accurate than the Savage 110BA at 500 yards +++??? And by the time I put a muzzle brake and recoil pad on it what would be the cost? Aprox? And would the 06 reach out to lets say 1000 yards and be a "Great" knockdown Elk or anything gun, if 500 was the "Minimum"?? As again, I don't know excatly what the yardage would be... So I need something that will work for any "Long-Range" shot for anything in North-America... Then I don't have to worry about not having enough gun for the task, and have to buy another gun because I didn't choose the right one on this gun purchase... I just need to find a way to reduce the recoil of the 300. Mag... I think the majority of people said I need the 300.Mag for long distance "Elk" or anything, some say 338.LM or some said 7mm-mag, few others said as you the 30-06, or 308. or some even said 270. or the 270wsm. Then a few had some others I don't know, Maybe Russian cal. or something. But I think I'm staying with the 300.mag, but want to find the "lowest-Recoil" **Accurate** gun out there.(Without spending a Bazillion Dollars) Can't spend over $2,000. on gun as the Scope I want is around $1,200. Extra And I need that scope.... If I do good on this hunt I may also do some Mule-Deer with him as well as other Hunting out here... So I want a gun to hunt anything at any range that doesn't hurt me to shoot... )) If you had a bad shoulder that was Very sensitive to the touch and could only have one gun to hunt "anything"(Elk, Moose, Bear, Rams?) at "any" yardage, out to 1,200 yards (Scopes limit) what would you own???

Sendero 300wm good bed and float job and decent glass along with a good muzzle brake and you are set.

 

[Debo]

Thanks Dr. Vette, But, I was told that the regular Burris elem has to be a "full" 12X for the rangefinder and compisator to work, I'm not just buying this gun/scope for this hunt only... I need a gun for "Any" hunt anywhere here in North-America for "anything". I don't want a scope if I'm hunting white-tails in the mid-west at 70 yards not to work because I have it down on 4X. I want it to work "Any-Time" For "all" hunts. Yes this hunt is important, but like I said before I need to make sure I get a gun that will handle "Any" hunt I go on for "anything"... This is not a "Paid" hunt and he is not a Pro- "Hunting-Guide" he is a "Great" guy that has hunted here for many, many, years and was nice enough to ask me if I wanted to hunt with him. He's hunting now, so when he get's back I want to have a gun all picked out and maybe even buy it so when he gets back we can go and start seasoning the barrel in, so I can find the right ammo that shoots the best through it. Then in April I can put in for my tag and then see where we are going to hunt, he said he usually gets 1 of 4 areas to hunt so I need a gun to hunt any of those areas as we don't know what area it's going to be until June. Thanks for the tip on Guide hunting as I may do a "Paid" white-tail hunt in the future if I can't get a "Buck" out here. Yes I'm looking at the Savage-Long range hunter as well, but the break at the end doesn't look as good as the 110BA's, so I would have to change it, as I want the "Best" break possible, to reduce the recoil, and one that won't blow dirt into my face as it's very sandy and light dirt (almost like baby-powder in some places) here in the "Desert"... I'm looking into other recoil reduction systems like "Bills recoil-reduction systems" to add to the stock if I get a standard type stock.. And was hoping someone could tell me what I could use on the 110BA stock to reduce the recoil even more? I've seen some videos of the 110BA in 300.Mag where a woman is shooting and it doesn't look like it recoils very much, so I need to know if maybe a Limb-saver will fit over the end stock to reduce it even more? I'm not worried about the Draw, as like I've said, I'm big with long arms. I don't care about weight too much either as I won't be carrying it much. I just want a "Long-Range" Gun to hunt anything anywhere anytime, without hurting me... )) gun)

 

[WildRose]

Thanks Dr. Vette, But, I was told that the regular Burris elem has to be a "full" 12X for the rangefinder and compisator to work, I'm not just buying this gun/scope for this hunt only... I need a gun for "Any" hunt anywhere here in North-America for "anything". I don't want a scope if I'm hunting white-tails in the mid-west at 70 yards not to work because I have it down on 4X. I want it to work "Any-Time" For "all" hunts. Yes this hunt is important, but like I said before I need to make sure I get a gun that will handle "Any" hunt I go on for "anything"... This is not a "Paid" hunt and he is not a Pro- "Hunting-Guide" he is a "Great" guy that has hunted here for many, many, years and was nice enough to ask me if I wanted to hunt with him. He's hunting now, so when he get's back I want to have a gun all picked out and maybe even buy it so when he gets back we can go and start seasoning the barrel in, so I can find the right ammo that shoots the best through it. Then in April I can put in for my tag and then see where we are going to hunt, he said he usually gets 1 of 4 areas to hunt so I need a gun to hunt any of those areas as we don't know what area it's going to be until June. Thanks for the tip on Guide hunting as I may do a "Paid" white-tail hunt in the future if I can't get a "Buck" out here. Yes I'm looking at the Savage-Long range hunter as well, but the break at the end doesn't look as good as the 110BA's, so I would have to change it, as I want the "Best" break possible, to reduce the recoil, and one that won't blow dirt into my face as it's very sandy and light dirt (almost like baby-powder in some places) here in the "Desert"... I'm looking into other recoil reduction systems like "Bills recoil-reduction systems" to add to the stock if I get a standard type stock.. And was hoping someone could tell me what I could use on the 110BA stock to reduce the recoil even more? I've seen some videos of the 110BA in 300.Mag where a woman is shooting and it doesn't look like it recoils very much, so I need to know if maybe a Limb-saver will fit over the end stock to reduce it even more? I'm not worried about the Draw, as like I've said, I'm big with long arms. I don't care about weight too much either as I won't be carrying it much. I just want a "Long-Range" Gun to hunt anything anywhere anytime, without hurting me... )) gun)

When my nieces were both well under 100lbs they both would shoot my 7mm Rem with no trouble at all shooting 140gr bullets.

Had I put a good brake on it like Kirby's or even the Shrewd Varmint brake (both of which are side discharge) they'd have been fine even with the 168's.

They are both "full grown" now and still have no problem shooting the 140's or 150's from my 7mm STW's.

Limbsaver's recoil pad, quality break and a rifle at or above 8lbs and you'll be fine.

I just picked up a Model 70 Extreme Weather in 300wm and I'll be working it up over the next six months and reporting my progress here so stay tuned, maybe I can help.

I've also got my eye on a 7mm STW that is a weatherby accumark and I'm hoping someone will buy it before I get the chance to. If not stay tuned HA!

 

[RDM416]

You have mentioned that you are a big guy and weight is not that much of a factor, just recoil. A heavy gun will certainly have less felt recoil and will also help you shoot better. (easier to hold steady...... with a rest or bipod that is). My 14 year old daughter has a 338 Lapua that weighs in at 14.7lbs. It has a slab type brake (PK brake by Kirby at APS). The recoil is very mild, less punch than my Ruger No 1 6mm rem.

Go with a heavy gun, 12+ lbs. Have an after market brake installed. Holland, APS pain killer (PK) or other similar brake. Even with a large magnum cartridge the recoil will be very mild. With a something like a 7mm or 300 win mag you should hardly feel it.

 

[Debo]

Thanks for your reply, the 110BA is a heavy gun, but will a after market muzzle brake do better than the factory tuned one that comes with it? Please let me know as well as aprox. price for a aftermarket one installed... Also what would you recomend for recoil-reducer pads for the 110BA?? Or even a new recoil reducing stock?? Please let me know asap. Thanks again...

 

[Debo]

Thanks for your reply, the 110BA is a heavy gun, but will a after market muzzle brake do better than the factory tuned one that comes with it? Please let me know as well as aprox. price for a aftermarket one installed... Also what would you recommend for recoil-reducer pads for the 110BA?? Or even a new recoil reducing stock?? Please let me know asap. Thanks again...gun)