Loading manual data differing

[del2les]

Always remember, loading manuals are just "guides" and only reflect the specific bullets, brass, primers, etc that were used in testing in a specific chamber and barrel. Every barrel has slightly, and sometimes more, variations than another, and the same can often be stated for differing lots of bullets, powders etc.

Over the decades, I have seen bullets vary a few tenths from lot to lot, brass thickness/weight change, powder lots change in burning rates and charges to achieve similar vels, barrels that vary several tenths and even thousandths, smooth to rough, and so on an so forth.

Always start low and work up with attention to pressure signs and other.

One of the better examples of changes in powder over time is the comparison of the old Blue Dot to the later version. I had some very fast vels with safe pressure in several pistol/revolver loads for many years, and then everything changed and those same loads became dangerous. Herc had to send out warnings about the changes and many previous loads and bullet weights using Blue Dot were delisted in newer manuals.

 

[436]

Data constantly changes. Thats why they print new manuals. Powder lots change, bullets change and are added, primers vary, guns used in tests may differ, this list goes on. All good reasons to keep your reloading manual library current. Hornady is usually good about that. If you go to the powder maker sites you will find the data differs from Hornady.

I'm in the Seabeeken camp on this, I think data change is due to changes in things like power, bullets, and primers as well as wanting to get some of the new cartridge's data out using their new product. So as you look at the two manuals of FIGunner you'll see one has 10 bullets the other has 7 bullets, I see this kind of change in pretty much all my manuals. So in their testing, they must retest whatever is on the old page with the new product in their new product line manual page as well.
Sidebar... kinda funny how most of the time the newer product always outperforms the company's older product which suddenly loses its preform edge, well it sure seems that way when I read through the manuals. And yes, there was a time early on when the attorney's got into the act, but I think that was mostly in the really early days when all the companies were shooting for really "high" velocities that did kind of get out of hand.
Just my 0.2 Cheers

 

[3chester]

I'm in the Seabeeken camp on this, I think data change is due to changes in things like power, bullets, and primers as well as wanting to get some of the new cartridge's data out using their new product. So as you look at the two manuals of FIGunner you'll see one has 10 bullets the other has 7 bullets, I see this kind of change in pretty much all my manuals. So in their testing, they must retest whatever is on the old page with the new product in their new product line manual page as well.
Sidebar... kinda funny how most of the time the newer product always outperforms the company's older product which suddenly loses its preform edge, well it sure seems that way when I read through the manuals. And yes, there was a time early on when the attorney's got into the act, but I think that was mostly in the really early days when all the companies were shooting for really "high" velocities that did kind of get out of hand.
Just my 0.2 Cheers

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Good collection there!! I've noticed, if it's a bullet manufacturers manual vs a powder company, sometimes, quite a difference in velocity.

 

[Huntslow]

I can echo many of the comments here. Trying to develop safe loads for 11 bullets means the highest pressure combination limits the others. An example is my 7MM Remington Magnum. Using H4831 and 175 grain bullets, Speer data from the late 60's shows a max of 65 grains and now it is 60. The velocity almost matches with the same number of grains (it was a starting load in the 60's). I have also checked with Hodgdon as I use 65 gains and a 175 Nosler. Hodgdon now shows 58 grains as max. They told me "If it was safe then , it will be safe now". Some of it is probably lawyers.

 

[436]

Good collection there!! I've noticed, if it's a bullet manufacturers manual vs a powder company, sometimes, quite a difference in velocity.

Yeah, it seems so, like most things in life it seems to be bottom-line driven... make no mistake, velocity sells, like fishing lures, the bright colors are mostly for us, not the fish. Cheers

 

[memtb]

Quite an abundance of reloading manuals that you've got there! I've got a couple around here ……somewhere! Though, my newest is from the late '80's or early'90's….I think! memtb

 

[436]

Quite an abundance of reloading manuals that you've got there! I've got a couple around here ……somewhere! Though, my newest is from the late '80's or early'90's….I think! memtb

Yep, I have a few others not shown, some are quite old first editions, you wouldn't think the old ones come in very handy, but... that's not so, there is a lot of good information in the older one as well. Some of my best loads were data I played with from the older manuals. A few of the manuals are complete sets starting from book #1 or their first handout pamphlet. I still have a few more to find, but... not many, just a few. Cheers

 

[3chester]

Nosler manual, most accurate powder tested, most accurate load tested, saves a guy quite a bit of trial and error. Sierra's accuracy load and hunting load, usually pretty good tips. Those books actually pay for themselves pretty quick in load development. Stuff that works, the Barnes, the Swift, the Speer manuals, all good reads.

 

[3chester]

Same here but a little more than 40 years ago….about 55 years ago!

I was always a gun and hunting nut …..and around age 6 or 7 watched my uncle and a few of his cousins reloading 30-06 rounds for a Wyoming hunting trip. I was amazed, totally infatuated…and hooked! By the time I was 13 or 14, I was reading every hunting/shooting magazine that I could get my hands on.

My Dad shot very little, hunted very little and, to my knowledge had zero interest in hand loading…..but, he didn't do anything to dampen my dreams.

So at 14, with some saved money from lawn mowing, picking up pecans, doing a little haying, and working Saturday's working at a local mercantile/grocery store……I bought my first centerfire rifle (Winchester Model 88 in .308 Win.) through the store at a good discount.

I quickly realized that I couldn't afford to shoot my new rifle with store bought ammunition …..so by age 15 I bought a Lee Loader. At 16 I bought my first centerfire handgun (S&W Model 28) and a Lee Loader. Then I quickly learned that what took me most of Saturday to load could be shot in an hour or so….plus jacketed bullets were expensive! So at around 17 or 18, I started casting bullets for the 38/.357 and within a few years for the .308 Win.

Thus began my journey down the rabbit hole! memtb

Those S&W Model- 28's came right from the factory in their workN clothes finish, the old 6" Highway Patrol rig, always up to the, dispatch a varmint task. We'd cast Lyman's double mould block 44 lead bullets, with the gas checks, run em thru 450 sizer by hundreds. Cheap weekend practice, throw in a couple ol 92 Winchesters and few Blackhawks, N- frames ,that stuff, just never got old!

 

[memtb]

Those S&W Model- 28's came right from the factory in their workN clothes finish, the old 6" Highway Patrol rig, always up to the, dispatch a varmint task. We'd cast Lyman's double mould block 44 lead bullets, with the gas checks, run em thru 450 sizer by hundreds. Cheap weekend practice, throw in a couple ol 92 Winchesters and few Blackhawks, N- frames ,that stuff, just never got old!

I got a well worn, 10 cavity Hensley & Gibbs .358", 148 grain WC at a garage sale when I was about 19 or 20…..an awesome investment. Once up to temperature, it cast 10 perfect bullets every time. Getting wheel weights free (at the time)…..I was shooting light load 38 Specials cheaper than I could buy 22 LR's. memtb

 

[Chas1]

Data constantly changes. Thats why they print new manuals. Powder lots change, bullets change and are added, primers vary, guns used in tests may differ, this list goes on. All good reasons to keep your reloading manual library current. Hornady is usually good about that. If you go to the powder maker sites you will find the data differs from Hornady.

Correct it's ever changing.

 

[lowdowndirtybugger]

The 9th doesn't appear to have the gmx listed and the 10th does? Or correct me if I'm wrong
A lot of solid coppers run at higher pressure for the same load