load development

[wjarrell]

Do you guys use new brass for load development or once fired (fire formed out of your gun)?

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

New brass what's that? Just kidding I use fired many times brass I don't really keep track of firings if the neck split or primer pockets get very loose I toss them. But I want my load development to mirror my normal use. I do trim my brass to uniform length which makes a big diffrence in accuracy.

 

[bob4]

I use new brass once. Then it's not new anymore.
Honestly, I would use new brass in the beginning of load development if I had to or for a load I know works. I probably wouldn't use new brass in the middle of a load development. Once fire formed for that rifle seems to tighten up groups a bit. Some guys fire the brass once to get it fire formed before they start a load development.

 

[wjarrell]

The only reason I ask is I'm getting ready to start load development for my 7mm rem mag. When I was figuring out a load for my 308 I was using once or more fired Winchester brass. The gun really liked 44 grains of varget under Berger 168 with CCI-200. After a while I bought new Winchester brass and loaded up a fresh batch of the same round from the same components and I was way over pressure. I had to drop my powder charge by 2 grains before I stopped seeing pressure signs.

 

[scrmblr1982cj8]

I would use the same kind of brass you plan on using. There are minor variations between manufacturers for the same caliber, so a load with Winchester brass may produce different results than Remington brass.

If you are putting plinking loads together, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Bart B]

I've seen no difference in belted case accuracy between new cases and full length sized ones done so correctly; bump fired case shoulder back .002" then use a second body die to shrink body diameter all the way back to the belt . Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment Neck only sized belted cases never shot as accurate.

 

[Mikecr]

I wouldn't waste powder development on un-fireformed cases. They will change until fully fireformed.
I do full seating testing while fireforming brass twice, and THEN move on to powder/ladder.

 

[Bart B]

Mike, what's the size of your biggest test groups with fully formed cases compared to new ones?

 

[FearNoWind]

... I was using once or more fired Winchester brass. ...
I bought new Winchester brass and loaded up a fresh batch of the same round from the same components and I was way over pressure.

If the new brass continued to indicate over pressure signs after its initial firing (the second and subsequent firings making it once - or more - fired brass) and those signs continued once it had been used, then the issues isn't once fired vs new brass; the problem is somewhere else. Winchester brass is not known for its consistency - in fact I find that I have to make adjustments for each new lot I load with.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I wouldn't waste powder development on un-fireformed cases. They will change until fully fireformed.
I do full seating testing while fireforming brass twice, and THEN move on to powder/ladder.

I wouldn't bother with forming brass first, unless you are talking about blowing out h&h brass to wby or something like a 7stw... Even then, you can often get good accuracy with your forming loads so you may as well get some serious time behind the rifle...

The only time I've ever had to play with seating depth is with either a bullet or barrel that sucked... I usually move on with another choice if the bullet doesn't play well at mag length. I'm hating on my 7mm 195 bergers at present because they won't drop below .6 to .7 moa without seating depth games. I'm moving on I suspect but I'll work with them a bit more first. There are other good 7mm heavies... I don't need a headache.

 

[Mikecr]

Mike, what's the size of your biggest test groups with fully formed cases compared to new ones?

Don't know, it doesn't matter. I won't ever be using new brass in the field.
I use fully formed brass that is sized the way I always size it.

Add to this that I don't have to replace my brass -ever.
For example, I bought and formed 50 Lapua cases for a .223rem. ~1900rnds later, same 50pc of brass in service. No problems.
That's ~37 reload cycles with STABLE cases, so why would I **** around with the moment my brass was still unformed?

The question amounts to whether results change from new to formed (sized or not). The answer is yes, for many it does. While I do not personally challenge myself with this, we do see it declared and discussed across shooting forums.
Some claim better results with new brass, some worse, some no change.

Makes no sense to me that anyone would roll dice on it, especially during load development. After all, if you did then you'd just be inclined to write-off any 'flyer' to the brass being new. Or was it? Changing powder AND case capacity is two changes at once, while load development is easier with single changes at a time.

If you really feel that 50-100 shots are wasted in brass forming alone, then use this opportunity to test big result items(coarse adjustments). Gun handling, primers, bullet seating depths, primer striking.
I have to say, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the potential in seating testing -knows little to nothing about load development.

 

[FNA3G]

I dont specifically start with either but have done both ways many times and honestly i dont see much of a difference. What you are looking for when load developing is the accuracy node. You will be able to find this with either. I have found sometimes that once the brass has been fired i may have to tweak the charge slightly but i have seen no change just as many times so any of that could be from outside variables. As far as peak accuracy you may find a little better accuracy once your brass has been formed to your chamber but finding the node during development with either is good to go.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Don't know, it doesn't matter. I won't ever be using new brass in the field.
I use fully formed brass that is sized the way I always size it.

Add to this that I don't have to replace my brass -ever.
For example, I bought and formed 50 Lapua cases for a .223rem. ~1900rnds later, same 50pc of brass in service. No problems.
That's ~37 reload cycles with STABLE cases, so why would I **** around with the moment my brass was still unformed?

The question amounts to whether results change from new to formed (sized or not). The answer is yes, for many it does. While I do not personally challenge myself with this, we do see it declared and discussed across shooting forums.
Some claim better results with new brass, some worse, some no change.

Makes no sense to me that anyone would roll dice on it, especially during load development. After all, if you did then you'd just be inclined to write-off any 'flyer' to the brass being new. Or was it? Changing powder AND case capacity is two changes at once, while load development is easier with single changes at a time.

If you really feel that 50-100 shots are wasted in brass forming alone, then use this opportunity to test big result items(coarse adjustments). Gun handling, primers, bullet seating depths, primer striking.
I have to say, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the potential in seating testing -knows little to nothing about load development.

you are talking about a popgun used on the bench Mike, not a belted mag rifle used in the field... I'll fl size my brass for every field gun I use, and save the neck sizing, etc. for a target rifle...

 

[Bart B]

Neck sizing belted cases has not done well in the accuracy department in rifle matches.

New cases or correct full length sizing belted cases lands bullets closer together down range.