Light Weight Rifle for Smaller Hunters?

[zog]

I have seen several posts referring to ultra light weight rifles "for my wife", "for my girlfriend", "for my kid", etc. These mentions are often in the rifles for sale. Sako's website advertises their Finnlight as "an excellent choice for women and younger shooters". Some others offering light weight rifles say the same.

This seems counter-intuitive to me, though. Assuming we are referring to smaller people less able to handle heavy or bulky items (not all wives and kids are smaller and weaker, we're talking averages here), wouldn't they do better with a heavier rifle to help reduce recoil? Seems like you could more easily discourage somebody from shooting if you start them off with a higher recoil rifle.

I'm helping my brother-in-law getting his youngsters started in hunting and I advised him away from the ultra light rifles for this reason. I remember in my own young sons' case that the 9-10 lb .270's they began with were almost too much recoil as they were, but the weight of the rifle was fine for them.

What are your experiences or advice?

 

[highbrow]

For my son when he started hunting, I got him a youth 308 and hand loaded lighter recoil loads that killed deer very well. When he got bigger, got a full size rifle and full power loads.

 

[MTLIVIN]

I would agree with you on the physics and general idea. However, its important to consider what kind of hunting they are doing. Stand hunting whitetails is totally different that hiking wide open public lands for mule deer. A lighter rifle with a bipod is the most a smaller framed newbie will want to carry for miles with elevation. In my opinion, this is why the 6.5 Creed is so popular. Its really effective to 500 yards and has low cost, low recoil, and accurate factory loads available. I just bought a 7.25lb total weight 6.5 Creed setup for my wife and kids to shoot for all the above reasons. Add a tall Harris bipod and your about 9 lbs, and we always hunt w that style bipod attached. Put that bipod to my 10+lb rifles and I don't even want to carry it on long days hiking. So yeah, I guess the 8-9lb total weight (bipod included) is where I prefer to setup the guns we hunt with. Caliber selection is key for new shooters, especially with a light weight setup.

 

[CVCOBRA1]

Depending on what you are hunting, small whitetails and varmints, a 243-6mm is a good starting round.

 

[HARPERC]

As I've done this a few times with younger shooters, I've began to think of them in 2 groups "kids" and "youth". Adding gender (just 2) into the mix, and generally females have about a third less upper body strength than males. Then factor in the variables of the type of hunting, shooting is going to be done. One size doesn't fit all.

With cartridges like the 6.5 Grendel one can have a lightweight rifle that can be carried by less physically developed. Learning to handle firearms safely from point A-B, being an important part of the experience in my mind.

 

[Jon Bischof]

I totally agree with Zog on starting new shooters/hunters with lower felt recoil guns. A light-weight rifle that hammers their shoulder will make them shake all over anticipating the painful recoil, develop flinching and generally make them hate shooting and probably quit because they don't enjoy pain, missing and embarrassment.

So if you want to play a cruel trick on someone you hate--get them a light rifle chambered in a powerful cartridge for their very first hunt. It will be their last hunt.

Since I don't hate my son, I took a different approach. BB gun, .22 LR and then for his first deer hunt (short range from a stand) a .357 Magnum Handi-Rifle with almost no felt recoil. He killed four deer with it and then graduated to a Tikka T3 Hunter in .30-06 which is a light rifle so I zeroed it for Fusion Lite 170 grain bullets to reduce the felt recoil. It reduces recoil by about 50%. He killed a deer with it last year. Bullet expanded and complete pass-thru which is what I like.

I still haven't let him shoot my .338 Winchester Magnum or my .300 Win Mag--but he still doesn't flinch when he shoots so I may be doing something right. He shot my new 6.5 Creedmoor from the bench last week and recoil didn't seem to bother him.

Don't know what to say to those who take a 12 year old on a long hike in high altitude mountains except that you need to decide if he/she is up to all the walking with a heavier rifle that is comfortable to shoot or up to shooting a lighter rifle that will have you bruised for the next two days.

I have seen several posts referring to ultra light weight rifles "for my wife", "for my girlfriend", "for my kid", etc. These mentions are often in the rifles for sale. Sako's website advertises their Finnlight as "an excellent choice for women and younger shooters". Some others offering light weight rifles say the same.

This seems counter-intuitive to me, though. Assuming we are referring to smaller people less able to handle heavy or bulky items (not all wives and kids are smaller and weaker, we're talking averages here), wouldn't they do better with a heavier rifle to help reduce recoil? Seems like you could more easily discourage somebody from shooting if you start them off with a higher recoil rifle.

I'm helping my brother-in-law getting his youngsters started in hunting and I advised him away from the ultra light rifles for this reason. I remember in my own young sons' case that the 9-10 lb .270's they began with were almost too much recoil as they were, but the weight of the rifle was fine for them.

What are your experiences or advice?

 

[Memberberries]

I built my wife (5'4") a 6.5 grendel howa mini action. It's reasonably light, has mild recoil, and shoots tiny groups. The lop is correct for her, bolt stroke is short and sweet, and at 18" it balances well with a suppressor. Overall it's about 8lbs with glass and a can.

She loves it and shoots well with it, that was my goal so I consider it a success.

 

[MOOSE39465]

I like the AR platform rifles for smaller frame people. You can get them built to fit most anyone and plenty of calibers to choose from. Jmo

 

[Plinker147]

I think both are needed. They can't shoot it if they can't handle it. Starting any new shooter, young, female or whatever a gun they can handle that doesn't buck the snot out of them is the best tool. If they can handle it and it doesn't scare them they will have more fun shooting and be better shots. They can concentrate on what what they are being taught instead of what the gun is going to do to them. For this reason everyone that teaches new shooters should have a light weight bolt action .223 or similar in their safe. Doesn't have to be the" hunting gun" but for range work and learning the basics it's awesome tool

 

[sable tireur]

Don't know what to say to those who take a 12 year old on a long hike in high altitude mountains except that you need to decide if he/she is up to all the walking with a heavier rifle that is comfortable to shoot or up to shooting a lighter rifle that will have you bruised for the next two days.

There are endless threads regarding every aspect of the debate about lightweight rifles. I for one am tired of the debate but evidently not everyone has gotten the answer they need to move forward.

There is a balance between the weight of the rifle, the recoil the cartridge imparts to the rifle and the training the shooter has received to manage the recoil. It's our job to find that balance not just assume that a lightweight rifle fills the need for everyone.

Kids and youth can be two different groups as mentioned above. Slightly built females can be another whole different can of worms depending on build. I had to fit a shotgun stock to a young women who was 5'2" but very well endowed. Laugh if want but this was a challenge as are most when fitting the extremes beyond average.

Kids, youth and women should be brought along just like any beginning hunter. Hiking just for the fun of it can be a great way to spend quality time with your kids and or wife. Add a small back pack for everyone as they progress. Spend the time identifying birds, trees, tracks, helping to build their attention span for what is to come, looking a lot and shooting little.

BB gun, .22 LR and then for his first deer hunt (short range from a stand) a .357 Magnum Handi-Rifle with almost no felt recoil. He killed four deer with it and then graduated to a Tikka T3 Hunter in .30-06

There is a natural progression of endurance for any kind of physical duress. I assist Game and Fish with their Youth Hunting Program, helping with the Hunting Education Safety Program and some field training. Mostly this is accomplished with .22LR during the first part but be aware that shooting position can have a major impact on the body when recoil is added. Standing is the best position to defeat recoil but veritably no one has the ability to shoot accurately to long ranges when standing on their hind feet!

Sitting in a stand where a rest is available works well for all of us. Elevated shooting houses are great if you have something like that available. Otherwise it's ground blinds or spot and stalk.

Sling handling and different styles of slings to manage the load when carrying a rifle for long distances are important. Look for the different styles to see which ones could be helpful for the youth, kids or slightly built women. Then spend those hiking hours practicing the carry positions.

Enjoy the process!

 

[zog]

OK thanks for all the input. Yes sorry for starting another lightweight rifle argument but I did do a search first. Didn't find much relating for "for wife" or "for kid".

Also for what it's worth -

I was not a hunter when my sons were young. I was steered toward .270 as a their first rifle by the majority of my experienced hunting and rifle buddies. Based on my sons' experience I'd do it again. They were active and energetic but quite a bit smaller than average for 10 and 11 years old. I couldn't afford much in the way of guns and scopes, and never even gave rifle weight a thought - I just bought well known brand name run-of-the-mill 270's. We spent quite some time at the range learning to shoot safely and manage recoil and they both shot bucks about 2-3 miles walk from the road in their first year. I have a great photo of the youngest when he weighed about 75 lbs, downing an elk with one shot at about 240 yards across a draw with elbows on his knees sitting in the snow.

Didn't take long and they were as big as me but have not had to "update" their cartridge. Now they shoot elk, bears, deer, antelope, and coyotes with 270's. They have since bought 300's and 6.5's and 17 HMR's to trial and goof with, but their go-to is still the old .270.

So you might think I already had my answer, so why did I ask, but there's so much experience and options available on the "web" that I did not have then so I wanted some input before advising my brother-in-law (who is probably asking the same question as a newbie on some forum right now).

As for me personally, I have developed a fascination with light weight rifles for long hike hunting and love them.

 

[sp6x6]

Started my boy hiking early.5 years old,first rifle 243.At 13,325wsm and 7rm,14 he wanted move into 340wby.Muley was a last day hunt with 340,spotted it out about mile away,he went after.

 

[JMW67]

I have taught quite a few women and youngsters to shoot including my own family, I always start them off with a 223 at the range, When they are comfortable with it I will move them up to a 7lb scoped 7mm-08 with a reduced recoil load . When they are comfortable here move them up to a full power load . Some have stayed with the reduced recoil load quite awhile hunting and killing deer and hogs the whole time seems to work very well

 

[Pulpwood]

Winchester compact , comes in three caliber s. You can cut the stock off some and add a recoil pad for youngsters.