Lead Sled Good or Bad????

[DUNEZRUNNER]

What is the opinion of using a Lead Sled rest for working up a load? I have read that they are great, limiting human error, and then they suck and create inconsistencies. I am working up a load for a 6mm Remington and a 338-378 Weatherby.

Today at 200 yards I shot groups with both guns that were less than 1" vertical, but 4" to 6" horizontal spread. I came home and researched what could cause this horizontal stringing and repeatedly found that shooting technique would cause this. I am using a lead sled as a rest and trying to be as consistent as possible, but could this rest be causing more problems than it is fixing?

Any help and insight would be appreciated.

Thanks

Thomas

 

[243Lapua]

In all honesty I really don't like the lead sled, It does not match the natural recoil of the rifle to the persons body. And I have also seen a couple of wood stocks break at the grip area due to to much weight on the sled. If you have a high caliber high recoil rifle be careful..My 2 cents....

 

[moombaskier]

I am in favor of the leadsled or sand bags in general for load testing only. Anything you can do to remove human error is all good. You still need to be consistant in how you load the rifle in the sled though. The sled also gives you a baseline for comparing accuracy to field shooting conditions.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Like them... Yes and no. I love a good rest up front, but have found that anything that locks in the butt of the gun gives me poor results, even when testing loads. I see other guys using them and always wonder how they are getting any kind of decent groups. I spent quite a bit on the new Caldwell lead sled fcx. I find that though the idea of the remote control handle is pretty cool, it's also pretty much worthless at least in my hands. When tightened enough so that the weight of my riffle and hold doesn't allow it to start drifting down on its own, well... the remote then is herky jerky trying to get on sight. When it's loose enough to get on sight, then it wants to sink. Just easier not to use it at all and just move the butt of the rifle and the vertical knob to get on sight.

I only use the front rest and have disconnected the the butt holder portion when I go to the range. When used like this, I actually only employ the vertical adjustment knob and vertical adjustment lock. Then I use a bag to rest the butt on. This produces very good results for load work ups. After I get a good load, I switch over to a Harris s bipod which is what I use in the field. Results off the bipod are consistent with those I got off the rest when working up the load. The only time I reattach the butt holder portion is when I clean my rifles.

Using the entire system with the rifle butt nested into the holder, created groups for me that were a joke. I believe the recoil moved the system inconsistently which produced groups that just shooting off a bag would put to shame.

My vote.... Good front rest, bag on rear which allows normal recoil into your shoulder. For me, keeping my grip and shoulder pressure as close to being identical from shot to shot seems to get the job done.

I'd love to hear others experiences, good or bad with the sleds. Perhaps if I locked it down with some ratchet tie downs, I'd get better results using the sled, but then all the recoil would be transferred to my rifle. Not sure that's something I want to do.

 

[J E Custom]

I am one that likes the lead sled for what I use it for.

I never add weight (It already weighs around 18 lbs and that is enough to tame most rifles without damaging them).

I use mine for working up loads and for proof testing new rifles. I strap the rifle down and place it where it will have enough travel when fired remotely to recoil and still be under control.

I also bore site the rifle after installing a new scope and the led sled will hold the rifle still while making corrections to the scope saving time and ammo.

Like most tools they are great when used correctly.

Just my opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Barrelnut]

Well the 338-378 Weatherby probably has some stiff recoil. Does it have a break? I use something like a Sled. It came out about 20 years ago before the Sled was thought of.

For me the sled concept works for working up loads, just like JE mentioned. The Sled puts a rigid plane between the from rest and the rear rest. For me, this usually takes almost ALL horizontal out when working up a load. Doesn't seem to be doing that for you for some reason.

My guess is that the rifle is jumping the front bag. Although that can also increase the vertical, it can really increase your horizontal. Even on a sled you need to control the rifle with a pull into the shoulder and good form.

 

[DUNEZRUNNER]

I am one that likes the lead sled for what I use it for.

I never add weight (It already weighs around 18 lbs and that is enough to tame most rifles without damaging them).

I use mine for working up loads and for proof testing new rifles. I strap the rifle down and place it where it will have enough travel when fired remotely to recoil and still be under control.

I also bore site the rifle after installing a new scope and the led sled will hold the rifle still while making corrections to the scope saving time and ammo.

Like most tools they are great when used correctly.

Just my opinion.

J E CUSTOM

How are you strapping the rifle to the sled and firing it remotely? Also, what is your procedure for setting the rifle in the sled?

thanks

Thomas

 

[DUNEZRUNNER]

Well the 338-378 Weatherby probably has some stiff recoil. Does it have a break? I use something like a Sled. It came out about 20 years ago before the Sled was thought of.

For me the sled concept works for working up loads, just like JE mentioned. The Sled puts a rigid plane between the from rest and the rear rest. For me, this usually takes almost ALL horizontal out when working up a load. Doesn't seem to be doing that for you for some reason.

My guess is that the rifle is jumping the front bag. Although that can also increase the vertical, it can really increase your horizontal. Even on a sled you need to control the rifle with a pull into the shoulder and good form.

The gun does have some recoil, but it has a break on it and helps a lot. I have noticed that it has a lot of muzzle jump and not just straight back recoil. So by jumping the bag, do you me the gun coming up off of the front rest? What is the best way to control this?






thanks


Thomas

 

[FearNoWind]

I've never been able to figure out how the theory got started that if you tie a rifle down like a hog for slaughter and test loads the results are somehow meaningful.
I suppose I'd have to admit that it would provide data about how well the load performed sans shooter but the barrel harmonics can be expected to be different if you tie a strap over it and it will certainly affect the influence of recoil on the bullet path so how confident could a shooter be about the results.
For that reason I remain unconvinced that something like the Lead Sled has any real value for building up a load. IMO, any shooter, with a bit of practice, should be able to hold -.5 MOA at 100 yards with a good load, a good front rest and rear bag. Bench rest shooters notwithstanding (they're a separate breed) if your load can hold that accuracy you don't need to tie the gun down.

 

[J E Custom]

How are you strapping the rifle to the sled and firing it remotely? Also, what is your procedure for setting the rifle in the sled?

thanks

Thomas

When I test fire remotely, (These are brand new firearms and they need to be tested above the max load for the cartridge). I call these loads a blue pill. this assures that everything is in good working order and safe. for this I use Velcro straps to hold the firearm down and a 30 to 40' cord to fire it from a safe distance just in case. I know of two gunsmiths that have had a firearm fail during testing and were injured. I have 100% confidence in my work but don't wont to be on the receiving
end of a failure. before the lead sled we tied them down to a spare tire for this testing.

For testing loads and sighting in I just get behind the sled with my shoulder and fire holding the rifle normally (No Tie downs). I even placed a piece of carpet on the back of the sled where the but stock is held for the big /hard kicking rifles.

The only time I have ever used the sled with extra weight was while testing muzzle brakes with
top ports to hold the rifle as still as possible during filming.

And as you can see the effects are disturbing and can damage a rifles stock and bedding if extra weight is added.

I know that the led sled was designed to reduce recoil by adding weight, but I don't recommend it,
besides, the sled will more than double the weight of the rifle as is.

Hope this helps

J E CUSTOM

 

[junkie]

I've never been able to figure out how the theory got started that if you tie a rifle down like a hog for slaughter and test loads the results are somehow meaningful.
I suppose I'd have to admit that it would provide data about how well the load performed sans shooter but the barrel harmonics can be expected to be different if you tie a strap over it and it will certainly affect the influence of recoil on the bullet path so how confident could a shooter be about the results.
For that reason I remain unconvinced that something like the Lead Sled has any real value for building up a load. IMO, any shooter, with a bit of practice, should be able to hold -.5 MOA at 100 yards with a good load, a good front rest and rear bag. Bench rest shooters notwithstanding (they're a separate breed) if your load can hold that accuracy you don't need to tie the gun down.

My main reason for the Sled is to reduce recoil not shoot better. I cannot handle 50 300wm shots in one day without one. It has allowed me to enjoy shooting with my bum shoulder. I do not put a bunch of weight on just 1 bag full of lead shot.
I have been cautioned by a scope maker to not put to much weight on the sled

 

[FEENIX]

I too use a lead sled and like Jerry, I don't recommend the use of weights and but if I you do, just enough to reduce the recoil to a more manageable level (not eliminate it) as the weakest link will break (i.e. stock). Mine has a $1.99 strap to secure the rifle just in case it get accidentally get knocked off the rest as I did.

I particularly like it during barrel break in; ease of transition from shooting to barrel cleaning and back to shooting again with the same set-up.

During load development, after I'm satisfied, I shoot it on prone with my hunting set-up and make necessary adjustments as required.

CON: at least for me is, I can't cradle the rifle as good as I want too.

I understand it's not for everybody but it works for me for my intended purpose.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[Barrelnut]

The gun does have some recoil, but it has a break on it and helps a lot. I have noticed that it has a lot of muzzle jump and not just straight back recoil. So by jumping the bag, do you me the gun coming up off of the front rest? What is the best way to control this?

Even with the sled the rifle needs to be controlled with the trigger hand just like shooting off of a bipod. Try pulling the rifle straight back into the shoulder with no left or right pressure applied to the grip. I like to also put a little downward pressure on the grip with the trigger hand. Finally add some cheek pressure. These things will help beep the muzzle from jumping left or right during the shot.

 

[azsugarbear]

I also use the sled and find it has a useful purpose. It makes bore sighting the rifle easy to do. In this instance, I use it more like a gun vise.

Like Feenix stated, use of the sled during barrel break-in speeds up the shoot/clean process for me. At this point, I'm not interested in POI - just hurling lead down range. I use the cheaper bullets for this process.

I also use it in the next stage of my load development: finding max pressure. I load em up in 0.5 grain incremental increases until I get a stiff bolt. I note that in my log and then back off a grain or two.

When it comes time to shoot a ladder test - that's when you need to get off the sled and start using a rest or bipod. I think too many of us stay on the sled longer than we need to.