Lathe and Mill Recomendations??

[Wisner74]

I am thinking about buying a used lathe and mill. Thinking about Gunsmith school up in Lassen in 2017. I will be retireing then. Kinda wanted to start getting some of the equipment if the right deal came along. Any Recomendations would be great!

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Figure out your budget.

Get the biggest mill and lathe you can afford and get into your shop.

You can do a lot with PM1127VF Lathe and Precision Matthews PM-932M Bench Milling Machine with Dovetail Column

I have the earlier models.

 

[EricL]

My first question is, what kind of price range are you thinking? I run a 16x60 Sharp lathe and a Bridgeport mill some at work that I wish like CRAZY I could have at my house but I don't think I can justify having $15,000 into 2 machines for the hobby stuff I do for myself. One thing I will say though is, get machines with DROs if possible. You don't have to have DROs but they make things way easier. Also look for a lathe with as large of a through hole in the head stock as possible, I have seen some with through holes 1'' or smaller and at that size you may as well not have one at all. Another thing to remember for threading purposes is the lowest available spindle speed. Some of the hobby size machines have a lowest speed of around 100 RPM and when you thread with a lathe you find out that at 100 RPM you have to be REALLY on the ball to keep from crashing the threading tool when threading up to a shoulder. A lowest RPM of 70 or less is ideal and 45 can be really nice for small I.D. threads were it is hard to see the tool. I am no expert by any means but this is just a few little things I have noticed I hope it helps Seaman those are really nice looking machines for the money! How do you like yours?

 

[royinidaho]

Figure out your budget.
You can do a lot with PM1127VF Lathe and Precision Matthews PM-932M Bench Milling Machine with Dovetail Column

jf,

My budget is figured out!

When you get the hanker'n to upgrade that Bench Milling Machine give me a holler. I'll come get it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Cute little machines of obviously Chinese descent. Not much bulk in either, either. I see the mini lathe is 550 pounds, didn't check out the mill but it can't be much either.

I want to see, in a floor lathe, at least 1500 pounds of mass and in a vertical mill at least 1000 pounds of mass. Mass directly equates to accuracy and deflection when cutting.

That mill would fit nicely on the table of my Versa-Trak....

If I were in the market for machine tools (I'm not, I own a complete shop with employees now), I'd be looking for a used LeBlond Servo Shift in the 16 x 50 variety, with a real through hole through the spindle too.

Things like true delivered power frequency drive, replaceable bed ways and Class 5 spindle bearings are real important. Anyone can add a DRO, thats linear scales and a digital readout.

Lots of good new and used mills out there... with substance. My preference is, of course Bridgeport with a vari-drive and for true 3 axis CNC, a Haas of Mazak but then you have to have a large wallet or a commercial shop where the machines make money.

Those machines are nice for hobby work and not close tolerances either, sort of the basement hobbyist type with no real game plan for actually making money.

If it's not 3 phase I don't even look at it.

I got a kick out of the video of the lathe turning that bar stock with no center hole in the tail end and no live or at least a dead center to negate the obvious taper the lathe was producing, factoring in point of cut deflection. I don't to stuff like that and my employees don't either.

Was amusing to me that they would post that on You-Tube. I know I wouldn't.

 

[shortgrass]

I am thinking about buying a used lathe and mill. Thinking about Gunsmith school up in Lassen in 2017. I will be retireing then. Kinda wanted to start getting some of the equipment if the right deal came along. Any Recomendations would be great!

Last I knew, all the gunsmithing schools have years long waiting lists. Everyone wants to be a gunsmith! I'd check on those 'waiting lists' before I decided how I was going to proceed. Personally, I've of the mind that a 13"x 40" or !4" x 40" are ideal for gunsmithing. Big (and heavy) enough to actually do some work, small enough they are not unwieldy. If you're chambering through the headstock, which seems to be the most popular method these days, that tailstock is gonna' be heavy on a larger machine,,,,, and you'll be sliding it back and forth alot. Needs to be heavy enough to show some ridgidity, light enough you have some 'sensitivity' as you enter the chamber area with the reamer. 40" bed would be a minimum, longer won't hurt as long as you have the room for it. As for a vertical mill, there should be plenty of used machines available. The bigger the better,,,, 10" x 54"..... You can do 'small work' on a large mill, but you can't do "big work" on a small mill. DROs? Unnecessary! You'll have dial indicators on magnetic bases, anyway. You'll need those $$$ you spent on DROs for tooling. And believe me, there's no end to the 'tooling' you'd need and like to have to make life easier. You won't graduate from any gunsmithing school being a 'cracker jack' machinist. That takes a life time! You can graduate with a rudimentary understanding of gunsmithing if you apply yourself. Then, the 'learning' begins!

 

[royinidaho]

Sidecar,

For the stuff I dink around with and considering my diligence/patience or lack thereof that stuff would do me just fine...

 

[SidecarFlip]

Roy: I presume (maybe wrongly) that you are younger than I am. I have limited patience myself. I suspect when I pass, my wife is gonna have one helluva machinery sale.......

I set all the machines in the shop myself and some are pretty darn heavy. I have one toolroom grinder thats over 7000 pounds, that is a chunk of iron (Meehanite to be exact). It's accurate to 0.00001 (supposedly in a controlled enviroment) that it's not in.

My ultimate gunsmithing lathe would be a LeBlond Servoshift, no question and while I own one, it isn't used for anything having to do with firearms, except maybe pointing meplats in a collet (if I can actually use it). My second choice would be Monarch 10EE.

When it comes to accuracy (much like long range rifles), mass is a deciding factor.

For hobby stuff and fiddling, those machines are fine but don't expect +-0.001 accuracy because it won't happen. Not enough meat there.

 

[Wisner74]

Last I knew, all the gunsmithing schools have years long waiting lists. Everyone wants to be a gunsmith! I'd check on those 'waiting lists' before I decided how I was going to proceed.

There is a wait list. I will be retiring in Dec 2017. That will be my 20 years with the State. Will be 43 years old. I am hoping in the 2018 fall class to start.

I appreciate all the input. I have a shop already for the equipment to start out in from home, so I can focus money towards the machines, tooling and inventory.

 

[SidecarFlip]

There is a wait list. I will be retiring in Dec 2017. That will be my 20 years with the State. Will be 43 years old. I am hoping in the 2018 fall class to start.

I appreciate all the input. I have a shop already for the equipment to start out in from home, so I can focus money towards the machines, tooling and inventory.

If you want quality and accurate machine tools, expect to pay for them. If you want to buy used (like a machinery auction), expect to rebuild them. I've dome both in my day. I've paid a gob and I've got dirty a gob too.

I've bought new (takes a good line of credit) and used, takes some mechanical and electrical skill).

Keep in mind that tooling is considered a consumable commodity. You'll be replacing tooling constantly. I have a drum just for tungsten carbide cutters that goes to the scrap yard every year.

Good luck btw.

 

[royinidaho]

Roy: I presume (maybe wrongly) that you are younger than I am. I have limited patience myself.

When it comes to accuracy (much like long range rifles), mass is a deciding factor.

For hobby stuff and fiddling, those machines are fine but don't expect +-0.001 accuracy because it won't happen. Not enough meat there.

Sidecar,

In 14 days I'll be 73. And some of those 73 were long ones.

I have ADD, ADHD, PDQ, WTH, and just decided I'm gonna be a little autistic, just for frosting on the cake.

I've just spent 3 hours removing copper from a rifle that is as nearly as old as me.

During this effort I have devised several innovative ways to speed up copper removal with Boretech Eliminator. Requires about 10 minute rest time, a good soaking of BTE and makes a helluva mess.

Youtube, and this post has helped to fill the time. So far I've learned how to lap a bore, crown a muzzle, make a muzzle chamfer tool,(did you know ya could polish a chamber with a wooden rod and emery cloth ?) and watched a fella jerk a tree stump into the back window if his SUV.

Thanks for read'n. Time to push another patch.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You got me by a few years, I'm 66. I left some of my parts in the hospital about 15 years ago.... Do I miss them? Hell no but the big incision still gives me hell and really limited my hunt excursions.....

That BTE is wicked stuff, I have to agree. I set mine in a Tipton gun vise clamped to a big welding table (we have a few of those around here, the shop does code stainless and aluminum welding).

I keep the muzzle lower than the receiver and a small bucket under the end (I'm too cheap for a solvent trap).

I take suitable sized mop and load it with BTE and run it through and let it sit foe a while and the follow up with a Dewey Rod with soaked patches. By that time the evil looking stuff is coming out the muzzle (I use one of those in the receiver tubes so the stuff don't run down into the trigger group).

Then I let it sit soaking for a while depending on how much fouling there is inside (I like looking inside bores at the gunk with a borescope..) Maybe I go feed the horses and come back but when I get back, I run a couple more patches on the Dewey (I use a nylon patch pusher) and then I follow up with a nylon bore brush (loaded to). BTE sells the brushes but Tipton is cheaper on Amazon...

Then I start dry patching until it's patching clean followed by the bore camera to insure I got it all....

It's nasty stuff but it's a dam sight better that that Sweets 7.62 copper solvent. That stuff stinks terrible. If you want some, I have a bottle I'll send you...lol

I like BTE. it works, no doubt. Good things take time....

Now if I can just figure out how to keep my Henry Big Boy from tarnishing in it's display case, I'll be a happy camper.

 

[royinidaho]

Sidecar,

Ha, talk about parts left behind! I have 3 scars. One on each side below and nearly full length of the ribs. Another thru the navel down to the pubis:roll eyes: One was spleen removal, one was gall bladder removal. The third was right kidney removal. No more non-vital parts left. Oh, and the ol' liver is cirrhotic. So quitcherbitchn

Other than that I'm in great shape. However, I am bit tenuous regarding putting the finish on my paint mare. :roll eyes: Super well bred, bit of offish disposition and was completely screwed up by a crazy lady.

Oh, what was this thread about when it started?

 

[lynxpilot]

Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

These folks are into the machining side of it, but there are some that are serious gunsmiths. As far as machines, I highly recommend whatever you might learn from that forum. If I were pursuing gunsmithing, I'd need some serious machines. There are a lot that come available because machine shops go out of business all the time. The old heavy machinery is always the best. They can be rebuilt and tuned with new ways and gears. Vibrations from floppy cheap Chinese junk results in hugely reduced precision. The extra dollar or effort in restoration is worth it. Pretty much all of them can be retrofit with digital readout, and most with axis drives as well. Good Luck!