Large Rifle primer usage instead of 209 shotgun primer

[wildcat westerner]

Saw a short report on using a large rifle primer for ignition in a M/L versus the 209 shotgun primer. There were no specifics so just looking at the two different primers,something obviously has to be altered in order to make this happen. I am used to 1,000 yard competition and consistent primer ignition is an absolute must for cosistent groups at this long distance. Is anyone aware of a direct comparison in a m/L rifle with regard to the two sources of ignition?

WW

 

[26Reload]

Reads like you're confusing a blackpowder mzlldr to a
smokeless mzlldr.....

I so..they use a centerfire brass to hold the rifle primer in place....
Encode should be right along soon..

 

[Wolf76]

There are options out there that use a lr or lrm primer. The premise is that a shotgun primer causes the bullet/sabot to push up before thorough combustion. The lr primers cause very little movement.
I've used both and prefer the lr primer using a primer module. I also shoot smokeless powder, but BH209 acts somewhat similar.
Is it necessary? Really depends on your needs. Are you shooting smokeless, non saboted bullets, and need long range (200+) accuracy? This will help.
At 150 or less, probably not worth the effort.

Jeff Hankins, PR Bullet, Arrowhead rifles, bestill custom creations are all good resources

 

[ENCORE]

Saw a short report on using a large rifle primer for ignition in a M/L versus the 209 shotgun primer. There were no specifics so just looking at the two different primers,something obviously has to be altered in order to make this happen. I am used to 1,000 yard competition and consistent primer ignition is an absolute must for cosistent groups at this long distance. Is anyone aware of a direct comparison in a m/L rifle with regard to the two sources of ignition?

WW

The main difference is a change in breech plugs to one that uses modules. Yes, modules shooting LRP's or LRMP's is more consistent than using 209 primers. An issue might be the rifle you have is not compatible with most of the custom breech plugs being made by the builders.
Modules work for BP, all substitutes (BH209 included), and they are used for the custom SML rifles.

If your intent is to shoot LONG RANGE, then the module system is what I'd change to, IF, my rifle was compatible.
Below is an example of a custom breech plug and modules for a Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUM).
Modules are easy to prime and re-prime with LRP's or LRMP's.

My custom rifle has the Arrowhead system and modules. We started shooting organized LONG RANGE matches last summer. We shoot 800, 900 & 1,000yds. I won the inaugural match.

 

[cohunt]

Iirc the original variflame system had 209 adapter cups

The variflame 2 uses 22 hornet sized cups

But I could be wrong as I've never converted-- I use cci 209m with my bh209 loads and they work fine for the ranges that I shoot

 

[biednick]

I used Variflame adapters to shoot LRPs in my 209 muzzleloader for a while. At the time I wasn't loading for shotgun but always had LRPs on hand for loading rifle rounds. Now I load for my 16 gauge and LRP are tough to find, so I use 209s. I saw no difference with BH209, but I'm not shooting much past 300yd.

CVA Variflame Adapters 20PK

CVA's Variflame Adapters allow for the use of large rifle primers instead of 209 primers. Early testing of the CVA Paramount Rifle revealed that the...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[wildcat westerner]

Thanks for covering everything for me. I have a lot of LR primers and a 800 yard range is a short distance from Me. I seek the consistency of long range capability here in the Rocky Mountains.

WW

 

[MallardAddict]

I have inserts made by knight that hold standard LR primers and fit on a #11 nipple. They are NOS but pop up on eBay occasionally, knight part number 900611

Also know a guy that uses thin clear tubing for fish tanks that hold a SRP firmly. He cuts the tubing to .300" and says each piece of tubing lasts several shots.

 

[Svashtar]

Learn something new everyday! I had no idea such conversions for LR existed. I only have two BP guns that use 209's, the rest are all traditional muzzleloading flintlock and cap lock guns in .45, .50, .54 and .58, but I'm not shooting over 200 yards, and have a pile of 209's put away so am good. I'll keep this in mind if I ever get a long range BP rifle that can take advantage of using them.

P.S. OK, re-read some of these posts and see the ranges mentioned, and guess you guys are talking about smokeless ML's, (?) which I know nothing about. I'd have to hold my Hawken up at 60 degrees to get 800 yards…!

One thing I never got when I was stocking up on components a few years ago as I didn't have a 209 BP gun at the time was any BH209. I have a rolling case full of Goex BP and 777 and other BP substitutes, but for 209 primers hear Blackhorn is excellent. I could have got it cheap back then, but now at $100+ a pound guess I'll have to get by without it!

 

[JAYgs8163]

Arrowhead makes one and also Hankins. I run the Arrowhead in my CVA Acurra 45. I run the 285 Powerbelt at 2330 FPS out of mine using BH209 and Large Magnum Rifle primer. See below. Call these guys, they're the experts.

Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP CVA Replacement Breech Plug - Arrowhead Rifles

Converts CVA QRBP to Arrowhead Gen2 LRMP module system. Includes 20 reusable primer modules. If you want to shoot Blackhorn 209 in your CVA muzzleloader, this is the breech plug for you. Priming kit includes everything you need to prime and deprime modules (ASG189 universal deprime station and...

arrowheadrifles.com

Hankins Ignition Systems - Hanks Precision Gun Parts

hanksprecisiongunparts.com

 

[cohunt]

If you are hunting, check your local regs on this---- some states restrict what primer you can use for bp hunting

 

[Bang4theBuck]

I built a smokeless muzzleloader using Jeff Hankins system. It's awesome. One thing I learned in my research is that the 209 full power shotgun primer actually has more boogie than a LR primer, and when ignited actually displaces the powder charge/bullet slightly, even before the powder itself is ignited. This degrades accuracy, as I'm sure you could imagine.

I confirmed this by reading up the ML specific 209 primers. While I thought they would more powerful than their standard shotgun counterpart, it is actually opposite, they are reduced power!

 

[jasonprox700]

Icould have got it cheap back then, but now at $100+ a pound guess I'll have to get by without it!

$100/lb would be a steal. Just saw it last week for $80/8oz ($160/lb). A guy at work bought some and loves it.

 

[arch408]

I used Knights LR primer adapter in my Knight MK 85 .54 calibermany years age. It seems to be very reliable. I never had any misfires or hang fires with it. I used it to kill an elk with it in 2001. I haven't used it since, having never been drawn for a muzzle loader hunt since then. One thing I liked about it was that it seemed to seal the nipple better than percussion caps. I have not used it on more recently developed black powder substitutes, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Actually, I use shot gun primers in my Encore .50 caliber using belted or saboted bullets, but if I was restricted to cast bullets, I would use the "old" Knight MK 85 with the LR primer.