Kimber Montana .30-06

[RichJD13]

I bought a Kimber Monatana in .30-06 not long ago. I've made 3 range trips with it. This is my first hunting rifle, so the first range trip was to establish a zero and become aquainted with the rifle, the second trip was a little more zero work and setting up the scope (Swarovski Z3 4-12x50). The third trip I worked on grouping and shooting technique. I have polished the bore after the first two range trips, and left it after the third, attempting to break in the barrel and ensure the barrel is good to go.

So far I have had a tough time getting a good shot group from the rifle. Out of a 5 round group, 3 rounds will consistently be printing 3/4 MOA with one or two "fliers" stretching the grouping to 1 1/2 or 2 MOA. It's frustrating to say the least. I have tried letting the barrel cool between shots, and have never tried to fire "rapidly," or as rapidly as a bolt action will allow.

Admittedly some of the problem could be the schmuck pulling the trigger. I was an infantryman for 10 years in the army, so I'm not new to shooting, but I am new to this type of shooting. I'm also proficient with a pistol, so trigger control and breathing are not unfamiliar concepts to me.

Unfortunately, for me, I am fairly ignorant (but trying to remedy that) with the finer points of diagnosing rifle problems and the intricacies involved with the different factors effectig rifle marksmanship.

I have been shooting Hornady Superformance SSTs in 150 gr, 165 gr and 180 gr. I have also shot Federal Nosler Partitions in 165 gr and 180 gr. the rifle HATES the 150 gr, 2-3 MOA, but the 165 and 180 grains it shoots how I've described above.

My buddy thinks a heavier bullet might be the ticket, so I've bought some Hornady A-Max bullets in 208 gr to give them a try. They're still in the mail, so I have no idea if that'll help.

Anybody have this rifle and or have any advice? Do me a favor and break it down Barney style. You won't insult me, and it'll same me from asking, "what is ogive?"

Thanks in advance.

 

[RichJD13]

The rifle has 93 rounds through it.

I've attached an example of the shot groups I'm referring to. It's pretty representative of how the rifle has performed in my hands. The first round was a clean cold barrel shot, and discarded. Range was 100 yards, rifle zeroed for 200 yards. Each hash is 1".

 

[gohring3006]

Are you reloading yet? It seems you are shooting factory ammo. Some rifles can shoot factory good enough but to realize your rifles true potential you should consider reloading. For some reason I can't come up with a good explanation for the ogive. Maybe some one will post a pic of a bullet showing the ogive. Its the part of the bullet that starts over the curve of the bullet. There are a few types (tangent,secant and hybrid)..

 

[sable tireur]

RichJD13,

I have polished the bore after the first two range trips, and left it after the third, attempting to break in the barrel and ensure the barrel is good to go.

I would like to hear a description of this process you used for your barrel.

There are several places to start looking.

Length of the chamber or how your cartridge and bullet relates to the throat. This is where reloading has it all over factory ammunition because you can adjust the bullet seating depth in relationship to the throat. Most reloaders still believe that jam or touching the lands is still the only way to attain accuracy. The newer, longer bullets seem to want to be staged slightly off the lands for best accuracy. Sometimes this can amount to as much as 0.050" for some of the hybrids.

Ultralight stock. Even though it was designed by Melvin Forbes of NULA fame, doesn't mean that the stock doesn't have some twisting or stability problems. Yes they claim pillar bedding and epoxy bedding but getting it right each and every time can be a challenge for a factory. Light weight stocks often take some getting used to and there are differences in how to achieve an accurate rest for those longer shots. These stocks vibrate differently from the more solid and heavier fiberglass/synthetic stocks. A gunsmith can assess the fit and stress-free circumstances of the rifle by measuring the movement of the barreled action in the stock as the action screws are loosened and tightened.

Trigger. It's an adjustable trigger, make it work for you. If you lack the information or skill set, take it to a qualified gunsmith for tuning, not just weight of pull but take up and over travel as well.

Those are the highlights without actually physically assessing the rifle.

Regards.

 

[kimba]

I almost just got a kimber in 30-06 as I love their handguns. When I held it in my hands, I was disappointed with several things. The synthetic stocks are not what I expected - they all flexed and felt cheap. Not cheap like the rems and savages, but not as good as the bell and carlsons I get for my savages. I tried several models including the mt ascent. The stocks sounded hollow and just felt cheap. I also noticed that the barrel seems very whippy - to be expected in the mt ascent due to weight. The actions were not as smooth as say a win model 70 (essentially the same action). Given that you can get a m70 for around $800 it was not something that I could justify spending $1100-$1700 for.
I actually read up a lot on on the weatherby v2. I gave it a look and was very pleasantly surprised. Fit and finish was hands down better. The action was smoother and the extraction is very authoritative. For a low cost rifle, I was amazed. I did not like the made in japan part or metric threading of the barrel, but a good lathe should turn metric threads. The stock was a huge surprise. It is completely stiff - no flex and I have taken it out of the action and tried to as well. It is a little modern looking and folks might not like that part, but it fits the body well and eye aligns well with the supplied talley rings. For half the price, it was hard not to buy it.
The proof will be in the shooting, but weatherby guarentees 1 moa or less with factory crud and reviews show some groups were more like half. The v2 is heavier than some other sporters, but that is with the 24" barrel.
The point is that I was sold on going kimber till I handled one - did not get to handle the wood stocked versions. Just a personal pref thing, not bashing.
Some things to look at are the bedding and free float of the barrel, tightness of action screws. Some of these pencil barrels shoot better with a pressure point from the stock to the barrel at the end where barrel leaves the stock. Weatherby does that as well as some rem model 7's. flyers like that can be due to poor stress relieving - becomes an issue as barrel heats up which you stated it really did not. Have you measured the chamber and measured fired brass compared to unfired - I know Kimber states match barrel, but who knows. Take it apart and look at bedding to be sure someone did not have a "Monday" at the shop . MY money goes on poor bedding job that a skim bed might just cure or stock flex that hits barrel.

 

[RichJD13]

Sable, I pretty much used the below linked web page as a guide to break in the barrel. I didn't use the steel wool, but did use the rubbing compound mentioned.

How To Break In a Rifle Barrel

I've been using a sling and a pack rest, front and back, to shoot off of. I'm careful not to let the barrel touch the pack when shooting.

I haven't started reloading yet, although with the A-Max bullets I just ordered my buddy and I are going to sit down and try to figure out a load.

Thanks for all of the knowledge shared already. I've already googled "ogive," that comment was pretty much in jest and to illustrate my point... Lol.

Kimba, how do you check the quality of the bedding?

 

[kimba]

you can use blue indicating dye on the action where it meets the stock then shoot to see where it rubs the stock - can use sharpie marker for same thing. Many good rifles are surprisingly poorly bedded. You can look at the stock with action out and do a rough visual on quality if you are used to looking at a bedded action. Best to just google skim bedding and just do it to be sure - I use the tubes of jb weld with 20-25 min set time and 24 hour cure. Devcon ( sp) is used a lot. Be sure to use release agent on action or clear shoe polish( what I use). Rough up the stock where bedding is done and then use degreaser on stock. modeling clay can be gotten at most hobby stores to prevent bedding agent from getting where you do not want it. Be sure to use a layer of electrical tape on the recoil area on the opposite side of the action to prevent stress and allow you to remove action from stock. Or just get a kit with all the stuff there from a sporting goods store. Most every rifle gets more accurate with a bedding and or pillar job.
The issue is that the action needs to stay in the exact same place in the action shot after shot. If it moves around from impact, it can change poi. Bedding and skim bedding eliminate that variable. The other variables not related to the shooter is stock flex, stock hitting barrel, and quality of barrel and chambering and ability of stock to allow a good cheek weld. Great barrels shoot everything well that the twist rate will support with little fouling and little case stretch. Thin barrels are more sensitive as a rule due to harmonics and lack of heat absorbing mass in barrel.
I hope this all makes sense

 

[jlostrander]

Make sure the barrel is clean. I would think in terms of 3 shot groups. It will get hot and three shot groups are going be the ticket, unless you want to take a half hour for each group. Let it cool for more time if the barrel is hot to the touch.

What is your purpose with the rifle? Deer or elk or other? I wouldn't go to the 208 grain bullet unless I was going to have a specific reason (game) to do that.

It seems that any manufacturer can have a specific rifle that takes a little experimentation to find a load it likes.

I have seen several of your model on threads with similar experience. If you are willing to spend the time, you can probably figure it out. It will be a little harder without reloading.

Buy a few boxes of the specific weight bullet you want in different brands. Always starting with a clean barrel, put together several three shot groups of each. That is what I would do until I found something it liked.

Try 165 grainers and move on to 180 grainers if you can't find one that will work.

When you find something you like, stock up on that load as it can and will go out of production in that specific configuration.

I have also read threads that kimber Montana owners get rifles that shoot just about any load well. It is just the luck of the draw it seems.

 

[RichJD13]

Wow, thanks. That's a lot of good information. Do you think its worth paying a gunsmith to completely Bed the action all over again? It's a very thin barrel and I've seen several places where people say that it's a good idea to support the barrel all the way down the stock instead of free floating the barrel on such thin barrels. What do you think of that? There's a very highly recommended gunsmith in GA that I would know did the job correctly, and there's something to be said about peace of mind.

 

[RichJD13]

Jlostrander, I've noticed the same inconsistency among Kimber Montana reviews. Some say they drive tacks, others have similar experiences to mine. I would assume the barrel and chamber manufacturing process is consistent. Does this further point to a bedding issue?

 

[Korhil78]

Try bedding it. Also, as said before, your rifle may just not like that particular factory ammo. Hopefully you will find something with the Amaxes.

 

[ramrod79]

I have had a few Montanas now ,and they are picky rifles but I have had no trouble getting them to shoot .5MOA .

Every one has been full length bedded ,and trigger worked .
I also hand load as none of mine have liked factory ammo, and a good 20-30 round barrel break in procedure was done before any load development .
I never shoot 5 shot groups with my light weight rifles 3 shot groups with a good break in-between shots as these barrels heat up quick.
The last thing I can suggest is practice as shooting a lightweight rifle is a bit different from a heavy rifle . The last Montana I sold was in a 280 AI the rifle had some work done to it as stated above gun would shoot .5 MOA at 100yards with me shooting my hand loads , and I had targets to prove to buyer. I sent the gun , and ammo to buyer but he could only get rifle to shoot 1.5-2 inch groups but he has never shot a 6 LB gun before, and after shooting 30-40 rounds from rifle he is now down to .75MOA at 100yards . Hope this helps you .

 

[jlostrander]

You should have a qualified gunsmith check it over for you. Explain the situation to the smith, ask him what he would be able to take a look at.

Eliminate thinks like the scope mount(s), the bedding, making sure the chamber doesn't have any visible signs of problems. I think a smith could do that.

I am not sure if a smith can help you much after that.

Before going to the problem of re-bedding the rifle, let the smith check for anything that it would need to be sent back to the manufacturer regarding. This would be anything that is from a problem in the way they put the thing together.

 

[bruce_ventura]

Rich, one quick thing to check if you haven't already are the screws that hold the action to the stock. I've seen group sizes cut in half when these screws were properly tightened.

There should be two - one near the breech and the other all day the way back at the tang. A third screw may hold the trigger guard in place - do not over tighten this one, as it may only screw into the stock. Do the action screws feel tight to you? Find out the torque spec from Kimber and use a torque wrench to tighten them.