Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass! Update

[MarkA]

Nosler brass for 7 Remington Magnum:

In March 2015 purchased 100 Nosler brass, was excellent quality and weighed 215 grains.
Also had some much older Norma brass that weighed 218 grains. I could load interchangeably either brass with no noticeable difference in speed or accuracy.

In March 2016 purchased 100 Nosler brass and opened them couple days ago to load and the first one I loaded I crunched powder at seating. This caused pause to check brass. Found this batch weighed 256 grains!! Bout passed out!

So on to check h2o capacity.

215 grain brass h2o capacity = 84 grains
256 grain brass h2o capacity = 79 grains (6% difference) I have found that a 4% capacity change = approx 1% velocity change, not even mentioning pressure change! So in my situation I can expect a 1.5% velocity change or approx 50fps.

ALSO 215 grain brass with bullet loaded measures .313 at neck while the 256 grain brass with bullet loaded measures just .309 so also thinner necks. I never used a .307 neck bushing unless I was neck turning back in the day of using Federal brass (oh by the way the old Federals avg weight was 235 grains with h2o capacity approx 78.7 grains)

And head stamps different too, the older 215 grain brass head stamped 7mm (lowercase) but newer 256 grain stamped 7MM (uppercase).

I dug out some 20+ year old Norma brass that where several years difference in age and they weighed from 213 - 218 grains, hmmmm?

Then go to my old Ken Waters manual published 1980 and he listed Norma weighing in 218 grains.

THEN finally got to talk to Nosler customer service yesterday and he seemed less than concerned and stated their brass is made to SAAMI dimensions at the Redmond plant. (True or not have no idea).

One thing seems to be is that it is NOT made by Norma.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

This reinforces: when ever there is a change in components. Check and start lower.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

...One thing seems to be is that it is NOT made by Norma.

Interesting. So much of the Nosler/Norma/Weatherby brass is so identical for the chamberings I load, I never looked to see if they have their own brass facility.

My QuickDesign drawing says it to CIP standard and has 87.1 H2O capacity.
Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_Remington_Magnum says 82.

Clearly, not all brass is the same...

Even if the name is the same.

Good for you to catch this before making a mess.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

I found the exact same issue with Nosler brass and Norma brass in 300WM.
I was so concerned that I sectioned a piece from each batch. The internal differences were huge. Norma brass had a thin web while the Nosler had a very thick web and walls. I also sectioned a Rem and Win piece to compare internal shapes.
The Nosler brass weighed/looked/H20 capacity EXACTLY the same as Federal brass I was given, which had oversized primer pockets and wasn't used.
So, it appears that Nosler sources brass from whoever feels they can supply the brass at the time it is needed.
I found those Nosler cases to fail in the primer pockets after just 3 firings.
This has not happened with the Norma cases.

Cheers.
gun)

 

[MarkA]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

I found the exact same issue with Nosler brass and Norma brass in 300WM.
I was so concerned that I sectioned a piece from each batch. The internal differences were huge. Norma brass had a thin web while the Nosler had a very thick web and walls. I also sectioned a Rem and Win piece to compare internal shapes.
The Nosler brass weighed/looked/H20 capacity EXACTLY the same as Federal brass I was given, which had oversized primer pockets and wasn't used.
So, it appears that Nosler sources brass from whoever feels they can supply the brass at the time it is needed.
I found those Nosler cases to fail in the primer pockets after just 3 firings.
This has not happened with the Norma cases.

Cheers.
gun)

Yep! Norma for me all the way now. Was most concerned that they didn't' care! The heaviest Federal brass I have ever weighed was at 240 grains, so to see 256 in two different lot #'s of Nosler shocked me.

Still most concerned they NOT care. Been Nosler advocate for years but NOT today. At least if it says Norma on the headstamp it was MADE by NORMA not Federal or who knows where. Have paid last big money for Nosler brass. Told customer rep maybe they need to stick to bullets!!!

Nosler customer rep told me I needed to adjust load following known loading practices, told him I would adjust this batch into the TRASH CAN! And he didn't care!

 

[toddc]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

Nosler weight sorts per lot. Unless you are on the same lot there is going to be MORE variance lot to lot than with other makers. A lot of Norma may vary by 5 and Nosler won't. However those different weight cases just go into different lots so it is very easy to see a large lot to lot variance. I have also noticed that some Nosler brass is soft as butter and yet some claim its hard as nails. The variation in hardness concerns me more than the weight.

 

[J E Custom]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

Nosler weight sorts per lot. Unless you are on the same lot there is going to be MORE variance lot to lot than with other makers. A lot of Norma may vary by 5 and Nosler won't. However those different weight cases just go into different lots so it is very easy to see a large lot to lot variance. I have also noticed that some Nosler brass is soft as butter and yet some claim its hard as nails. The variation in hardness concerns me more than the weight.

+1

When Nosler first started selling "Weight Sorted Brass" Like everyone else, I thought that was a great idea and worth the difference in price. WRONG !!!

I ordered 100 rounds to experiment with and see just how close they were. They were very consistent in both weight and size. So I thought I would order 100 more cases for the same rifle.
Being Anal about consistency, I checked this new batch, They were all very close to each other, but worlds apart from the first batch which meant that they were not weight sorted to a given weight, just sorted to match each other case In that batch.

This meant that if you wanted "ALL" of your cases in that cartridge to weight the same, you had to buy all of them with the same batch/lot Number.

The next bit of bad news I received was that the Nosler brass was made buy Federal and head stamped with Nosler on the case head. There was lots of post about this in the beginning and a Federal cartridge Employ volunteered that Information.

So I sold all of the Nosler custom brass and moved on. Looking back at my records I found that It was no more consistent overall than Remington brass at less than half the price. and worse than many other brands. Now I try to buy Lapua if I can find it because it is very close no matter how new or old it is.

I am a big Nosler fan, and I was very disappointed in this product. It was just a marketing ploy
that fooled many for a while and it sold lots of brass.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[MarkA]

Purchased 100 Norma 7RM brass and last night prepped them up. They weighed on avg 216 - 217 grains and h2o capacity was at 84 grains just like always in past.

This matched the 2015 lot of Nosler brass. Also loaded neck diameter was spot on .313.

Point being...... whew!, no load development required!!

Just not fond of "working" back up a solid .5 moa screamer! Enjoy load development for new components just not to reinvent the wheel on an excellent load.

Go NORMA!

 

[Shortmagman]

I have heard for years that Norma makes Nosler brass. I never believed that they got all their brass from Norma because I have 50 pieces of Norma in 280 Rem and 50 of Nosler in 280 Rem and they are not the same. I weighed both and checked the capacity and they are not even close. They were not different lots, they just came from two different sources. I am not sure where Nosler gets their brass but I am sure that not all of it comes from Norma. I stick to Norma(Short Mags) and Lapua in calibers that they make.

 

[TOM H]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

Yep! Norma for me all the way now. Was most concerned that they didn't' care! The heaviest Federal brass I have ever weighed was at 240 grains, so to see 256 in two different lot #'s of Nosler shocked me.

Still most concerned they NOT care. Been Nosler advocate for years but NOT today. At least if it says Norma on the headstamp it was MADE by NORMA not Federal or who knows where. Have paid last big money for Nosler brass. Told customer rep maybe they need to stick to bullets!!!

Nosler customer rep told me I needed to adjust load following known loading practices, told him I would adjust this batch into the TRASH CAN! And he didn't care!

Nosler does not guarantee weight of their brass and only thing they say about. Each box is weight-sorted so each piece in a box is weight-sorted within (+/- 1/2 grain).

Your on the Nosler site and it's about 8 post below yours about the 222 mag brass and he call customer service and they replaced the brass. He was pretty unhappy till he found out who to call.

 

[truck driver]

Re: Keep an eye on any new Nosler Brass

Nosler bought Sliver State Armory and all their brass is made by them in house. Sliver State employees also handle all the SPS shipments and if you by the factory blems they are packaged by Silver State and the customer service sucks. Nosler needs to step up and take control of the new company.

 

[Buckskinner]

Does not surprise me, after reading this I went down and checked a couple lots of 300 RUM and found a smaller difference of 19 gr, but still a lot! Nosler's quality control is not what it was in the past, they are more concerned with bullets, which is fine, just don't portrait yourself as putting out premium brass. Nosler's customer service is horrible as well. You probably talked to the same jag that I did... He really had no interest in what I had to say at all and really didn't care how I felt about Nosler after talking to him.

I had an issue with some Berger bullets (the tips were all peened over, looked like they went through a tumbler without media) while back and called and they connected me with Bryan Litz himself! He was very nice and truly concerned with what I had to say, sent me a box of one of their, at the time new Hunting VLD's to try out as well as a replacement of the ones I had an issue with.

That is over the top customer service and one of the reasons my shelf is stocked with Berger's of every caliber I load. I as least give them a try in every caliber and usually find a solid load for them as well.

 

[Double Dropper]

Good customer service speaks volumes

 

[Engineering101]

Mark A

Thanks a ton for posting your findings! I have a bad habit of buying a sh*tload of brass when I find it so I haven't bought much in the past year or so since I sort of have a lifetime supply. Anyway I WAS a big Nosler fan even though word was their brass was made by Norma. It was always closely weight sorted in each box and I knew to buy the same batch which I did. All was good.

NOW THAT THEY MAKE THEIR OWN ALL BETS ARE OFF! Interestingly I did just buy a couple bags each of Winchester brand 270 and 300 WSM. I prefer Winchester when I can get it because their metallurgy makes it tougher (and faster to work harden) than other brass. That toughness eliminates blown primer pockets unless I do something really crazy in load development. I weight sorted the 100 pieces of 270 WSM brass and it had a 10 grain spread! That is worse than it was in the past where it would have been 5 grains. I still expect to use it and have already processed it into 264 WSM brass. When dealing with that kind of brass I just drop the load as I cross 50 count box boundaries to maintain the velocity the same as the lighter weight brass produced. I'll be interested to see if the 300 WSM brass has as big a spread. The Norma 300 WSM brass I have is much tighter at about 3.5 grains across 100 pieces. The gun industry just keeps getting more and more "interesting" as in the old Chinese curse - may you live in interesting times.