Is a scope level needed?

[1hornhunter]

How many of you guys use an anti-cant level while shooting/hunting? For those that do, is this something you use all of the time? Over 1000/ under 1000? Just curious to see what you guys do.
1hornhunter

 

[bill123]

Bryan Litz explains this very well in one of his books. According to Litz, a three deg cant will produce a .6" horizontal error at 200 yards with a .308. I use a level and check it with each shot, even at 100 yards. That's probably a bit OCD but I prefer to make leveling my scope part of my routine so when I'm shooting long range, I do it without even thinking about it.

 

[FearNoWind]

I use the anti-cant level only when shooting from a very secure and stable rest while working on load development. I don't find it practical to try using it while actively hunting. Most game just don't stand perfectly still that long.

 

[Dosh]

HH, I have them on all my rifles. Groups have improved on all since. I try to give it a look every shot if possible.

 

[Secondranch]

I did not know I had a problem until I installed an anti-cant level.

 

[ATH]

If game aren't standing still long enough to check your scope level, they aren't standing still enough for long range shooting. Every one of my long range rigs wears a level.

 

[WildRose]

How many of you guys use an anti-cant level while shooting/hunting? For those that do, is this something you use all of the time? Over 1000/ under 1000? Just curious to see what you guys do.
1hornhunter

Definitely needed particularly if you are doping and dialing instead of using holdover.

If it's beyond 600yds it starts to matter a great deal.

The smaller the target the more critical it gets.

 

[FearNoWind]

If game aren't standing still long enough to check your scope level, they aren't standing still enough for long range shooting. Every one of my long range rigs wears a level.

It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but consider this.
Scenario - you find the target in the binos, then in the scope, align sights on target, check for level. The target takes two steps and stops. You swing a few degrees - now you've gotta check for level again cuz this ain't no runway we're hunting on. If you're lucky, the target is still standing where it was. If you're not lucky, you get to do it all over again. Hunting wild boar, for example, means being able to follow the intended target and taking your shot when the target stops moving; pigs don't stand still for long. Same goes for hunting on a hillside, uphill or down. If you're shooting off sticks or a pod you can't always get enough rotational movement on the rifle to get everything perfectly level and swinging to follow a target means the rifle will inevitably fall off of precise level at some point. My rig wears a level at all times, on the range or in the field. But I rarely find an opportunity to use it effectively in the field.

 

[WildRose]

It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but consider this.
Scenario - you find the target in the binos, then in the scope, align sights on target, check for level. The target takes two steps and stops. You swing a few degrees - now you've gotta check for level again cuz this ain't no runway we're hunting on. If you're lucky, the target is still standing where it was. If you're not lucky, you get to do it all over again. Hunting wild boar, for example, means being able to follow the intended target and taking your shot when the target stops moving; pigs don't stand still for long. Same goes for hunting on a hillside, uphill or down. If you're shooting off sticks or a pod you can't always get enough rotational movement on the rifle to get everything perfectly level and swinging to follow a target means the rifle will inevitably fall off of precise level at some point. My rig wears a level at all times, on the range or in the field. But I rarely find an opportunity to use it effectively in the field.

Not really. If you have a good eye for plum and square if you get your level set you can keep the reticle very level just by eye balling it even as you traverse with just a little practice.

As long as you've been shooting you are probably doing it automatically without realizing it.

Once you hit level on the bubble it gives you the proper orientation to work with even when shifting or traversing.

 

[ATH]

It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but consider this.
Scenario - you find the target in the binos, then in the scope, align sights on target, check for level. The target takes two steps and stops. You swing a few degrees - now you've gotta check for level again cuz this ain't no runway we're hunting on. If you're lucky, the target is still standing where it was. If you're not lucky, you get to do it all over again. Hunting wild boar, for example, means being able to follow the intended target and taking your shot when the target stops moving; pigs don't stand still for long. Same goes for hunting on a hillside, uphill or down. If you're shooting off sticks or a pod you can't always get enough rotational movement on the rifle to get everything perfectly level and swinging to follow a target means the rifle will inevitably fall off of precise level at some point. My rig wears a level at all times, on the range or in the field. But I rarely find an opportunity to use it effectively in the field.

If you have already checked the level once and need to move a little because the animal takes a few steps, you are likely still close than if you had never checked the level at all.

I stand by my experience that if I don't have the <2 seconds to glance at the level and shift the cant of the gun, I have no business taking the shot at a range long enough to make checking the level important. I have used the level in the field routinely for years, and I can't recall ever missing a shot because I was leveling the gun. There have been animals which simply would not hold still enough for a long range shot in general, but I'm not going to pop a 600 yard shot off at a cruising buck who only pauses momentarily. Experiences with other species and locations may differ but this has been mine.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

It's not that I disagree with you entirely, but consider this.
Scenario - you find the target in the binos, then in the scope, align sights on target, check for level. The target takes two steps and stops. You swing a few degrees - now you've gotta check for level again cuz this ain't no runway we're hunting on. If you're lucky, the target is still standing where it was. If you're not lucky, you get to do it all over again. Hunting wild boar, for example, means being able to follow the intended target and taking your shot when the target stops moving; pigs don't stand still for long. Same goes for hunting on a hillside, uphill or down. If you're shooting off sticks or a pod you can't always get enough rotational movement on the rifle to get everything perfectly level and swinging to follow a target means the rifle will inevitably fall off of precise level at some point. My rig wears a level at all times, on the range or in the field. But I rarely find an opportunity to use it effectively in the field.

I completely agree. I do not think that in the field that anyone can look at the level and move their head to position their check on the stock Secure it, and by doing so moving the torso a small amount to make it very effective at the ranges that people are touting it to be useful at. Why not just align the scope perfectly according to the bore and use common sense on the angle of the ground the animal is on and use its spine as a reference point.
This is a perfect example of the old saying. " If someone will buy it, some one will make it"

 

[yobuck]

I completely agree. I do not think that in the field that anyone can look at the level and move their head to position their check on the stock Secure it, and by doing so moving the torso a small amount to make it very effective at the ranges that people are touting it to be useful at. Why not just align the scope perfectly according to the bore and use common sense on the angle of the ground the animal is on and use its spine as a reference point.
This is a perfect example of the old saying. " If someone will buy it, some one will make it"

Have you taken a walk thru a well stocked tackle shop lately? Well it's getting to be
the same with this stuff. Not to say all these things dont work, but are they necessary? I stood and watched Bruce Baer install a new Nightforce on the 338 big
baer he had just finished for me a couple years ago. After installing many scopes
myself over many years i was anxious to watch a real pro do it. The gun was sitting on his shooting bench at his shop. He put the scope in the rings and lined it up on a post on the target frame a few hundred yards away. Then said to me look
in there and see if it suits you. Then commenced tightening it with a plain old
screwdriver. Yet many people today would tell you thats not the propper way.
Same thing goes for levels on scopes. If a person cant tell if the gun is canted maybe they shouldnt be shooting that far. Theres talkers and theres doers and the
talkers gotta own the tackle shop.

 

[jmitchell135]

Not arguing either way but lets put this to a test. Hopefully a few of you will join in. I have done it and proved to myself, on paper, in real life, which works and which doesn't.

Next time you go to the range, get a tall piece of paper and post it up. Put your target all the way to the bottom. shoot a group on your target. Spin your turret up 20-30moa or so. now shoot another group using the original target at the bottom as an aiming point. Now use a 4' level or plumb bob to see how straight up and down your groups are.

I hope a few of you do this and we can get some real data.

 

[Pdvdh]

I think they are needed for long range shots, and the more topographic relief, the more difficult I find it to sense "level", without the use of my scope levels.

I never used them until I started to focus on long range hunting. I thought I could judge level simply by observing the terrain. I learned in a hurry how unable I was to judge level after I mounted a scope level plumb on my rifle. Especially in the mountains. I was way off. When the entire mountainside is sloped 20 degrees and I was targeting objects along the mountainside I was hunting black bear on, I learned I was holding my rifle nowhere near level, after checking the scope level. I was so far off I wondered if my scope level had shifted, since after I leveled up my rifle, it looked anything but level through my field of view.

It's like a lot of other aspects of shooting long range. If you're shots are relatively close, say less than ~500-600 yds, it's not likely to make the difference between a hit or a miss. But at longer yardages, a canted rifle in and of itself, could cause a complete miss, or worse yet, a wounding hit that results in an animal that doesn't end up being recovered.

So for folks hunting in the vegetated terrain where you don't have time to check your rifle's level, you're apt to be experiencing closer range shots which involve less error with a canted rifle. Long range shots, which I classify exceeding ~500-600yds, I believe a hunter is more often than not able to afford the time to level up the firearm using a scope level. And I think it fool hardy not to do so.

If I'm hunting at yardages long enough to require a ballistics program and a laser range finder, I am also going to be using a scope level, because the error in POI could be similar to misjudged yardage to the target.