How critical is scope level?

[jdmecomber]

Sorry to disagree, but here is the guy who does it:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/californias-bob-gustin-sets-palma-records-at-camp-perry/
I know, because I used to run the gun club on Camp Pendleton, and Bob tried to teach me to shoot. He would always start his session by saying DON'T DO WHAT I

Sorry to disagree, but here is the guy who does it:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/californias-bob-gustin-sets-palma-records-at-camp-perry/
I know, because I used to run the gun club on Camp Pendleton, and Bob tried to teach me to shoot. He would always start his session by saying DON'T DO WHAT I DO.

You need everything as

Your impact is growing in this picture. Did you correct your solver to coincide with what your scope actually corrects to?

I don't remember exact numbers but my zero was off .4 ish also

 

[Capt RB]

If your hold cants the rifle you would set your scope up to track straight up and down and set the level to show this. Your tracking has to be true in both actual movement and plumb to the vertical plane.
Here is the DTR reticle you will notice the left side correction is higher than the right side. The horizontal crosshair is level and the vertical is tilted. This is for spindrift. It also has it's own ballistic solver built into the reticle to so it will correct to more than 250fps and more than needed kda for a given shot. as far as using a level to shoot great distances? I have not met a truly good long distance shooter that didn't use one. I shot to 1400 yds in the service regularly I didn't have a level. I would have unexplained misses that would have been explained with a level lol.

 

[Capt RB]

I don't remember exact numbers but my zero was off .4 ish also

I'd run your target double and keep going to see if it continues to grow. It's not uncommon to have corrections differnt than the label on the turret yet be exactly that different for 25-40 moa or 15+ mils. Love your targets btw

 

[jdmecomber]

I'd run your target double and keep going to see if it continues to grow. It's not uncommon to have corrections differnt than the label on the turret yet be exactly that different for 25-40 moa or 15+ mils. Love your targets btw

Yes sir

Thank you

 

[dfanonymous]

If your hold cants the rifle you would set your scope up to track straight up and down and set the level to show this. Your tracking has to be true in both actual movement and plumb to the vertical plane.
Here is the DTR reticle you will notice the left side correction is higher than the right side. The horizontal crosshair is level and the vertical is tilted. This is for spindrift. It also has it's own ballistic solver built into the reticle to so it will correct to more than 250fps and more than needed kda for a given shot. as far as using a level to shoot great distances? I have not met a truly good long distance shooter that didn't use one. I shot to 1400 yds in the service regularly I didn't have a level. I would have unexplained misses that would have been explained with a level lol.

you don't need a level, you just need to BE level

 

[Capt RB]

you don't need a level, you just need to BE level

I'm not disagreeing with that however in shooting some of the different positions in prs a level is faster than a guess. For me it's part of my shot sequence now

 

[rickys2]

Its not exact but it's very simple and gets you within an inch of where the full series of equations I did will get you.

You will be eating a "TV dinner" for the spending $25.00 on a bubble gauge.

 

[dfanonymous]

[QUOTE=

 

[dfanonymous]

I'm not disagreeing with that however in shooting some of the different positions in prs a level is faster than a guess. For me it's part of my shot sequence now

Yep, we didn't have bubbles in the military so I know what you mean

 

[WildRose]

I understand principle of setting the cross hairs to a level line at 100 yards (increasing the distance for setting the crosshairs) instead of the 50 feet that I am presently using. I do not have a Picatinny rail, the rings (Talley) are attached to a round receiver; round top Ruger 77. Presently when the rings are installed onto the rifle, I take the top of the split rings off, I "then" place the level off of the rings to get the rifle level, and "then" clamp the rifle in a Tipton vise to keep the rings/rifle level. Once the rifle is level, I level the crosshairs to a level line that I placed on the wall 50 feet away. If I use this process, only setting the crosshairs level with a plumb line at 100 yards, the scope ought to be mounted properly? The scope is a Leupold and there isn't a whole lot of bearing surface on the top of the scope cap or the internal turret, that is why I have not been leveling the scope referencing from the scope cap itself. Once the crosshairs are leveled to the axis of the rifle out to 100 yards and still clamped in the Tipton vise, "then" the cant scope ring is attached to the scope tube, and then leveled. I get what you have written in your post about doing trying to do everything possible to reduce your error, that too is what I am trying to accomplish. I do not know if I'll ever be taking an 800 yards shot, however I would like to ensure that my rifle is capable of making the shot if it presents itself. With all else in place I now have to work on the nut behind the trigger! Thank you for everyone's responses.

As long as your pulb line is trule plumb this should work fine. The biggest problem I get into is that occasionallyt he sope will walk a little as you retighten the rings. If this happens a couple of times I'll set it right and put a drop of superglue between the ring and the scope and let it set for thirty seconds or so before tightening.

 

[bigngreen]

In a lot of situations the eye and the horizon can keep you on level but I find there are occasions that I'm of so I find a level not even a question on my rifles.

 

[DavidleeCole]

1 degree is equal to 60moa or 17.4533 mils. If you dial elevation, wind, spin and coriolis and hold the point of aim center. You will have a shift of impact due to elevation travel up and going slightly to right or left respectively. So the impact will be right or left of the point of aim. However if you use the recital for wind or lead hold off's the cant you induced when mounting your optic and or level will have a impact shift that will be exacerbated by the amount of hold off that is applied. In example if you had 1 degree of cant in your rectical and used 2 mills hold off it would give a point of impact shift of 2 mils by 1 degree at said range. This would include both elevation and a lateral point of impact shift. So if the rectical is 1 degree left of plumb and left wind hold is applied then point of impact will be low and left of the point of aim because the right side of the rectical is high of true level. This is why I get a fell for my rifle and see that when I put a level in the action the butt stock fells good to me then I mount my scope level to that so my natural shoulder pocket is included and I will not twerk my rifle latter. After that is set I hang a rope with a weight to the end of it for a plumb at 100 yards and check my rectical is set plumb and then set my anti-cant level to that plumb line. Next I will set up a tall target at 100 yards truly measured with a 48" long line set vertically plum with a 24" horizontal line 10" from the bottom set level. This forms a big cross hair to aim at. The most important part of this whole process is attention to detail of plumb, level, range and all measurements . Next shoot a group at the center point of the crosshair and verify zero then run your elevation up by 30 MOA or 10 mills and shoot another group still aiming at the center or the crosshair target. Most important part to this is a good slow well aimed group. Now if any cant exist in you system it can be accounted for and taken out of the equation by correcting you ballistic chart for cant errors and or elevation correction factor. You can also come back to zero and dial 15 Moa or 5 mills right and then left sti shootig at center and get correction factors there as well for windage this is a box test. Please read Brain Litz work in applied ballistics to get all the formulas to lengthy to put here or watch Rex on Snipper 101for all the info you need and more.

 

[johnnyk]

I found this while watching some videos. Made sense to me so I made one for me and one for a shooting buddy. Hope this helps.

 

[Doug Herold]

Check out my video on rifle cant.

James,
So glad to receive your post. Very timely. Yesterday I was working with my son's rifle. It is a Cooper Timberline chambered in a 6.5-284. I am shooting 54.5 Gr of H-1000 in it. A light load. The scope is a Nightforce NXS 5.5x22. I used the Wheeler kit to mount the scope: level on the lower rings, match the level with a clamp-on level at muzzle for reference. The bubble is a Vortex Lo Pro slimline.
The first grp I shot was horrible. I was using a cheap bipod...prone. Nxt group ( not shown)was with a Huskemaw tripod... still unacceptable horizontal & vertical string. The third grp (shown) was with bags on forestock and solid bag at rear. What I began noticing was that the very slightest variation from EXACT center of the level would throw my poi (looking through the glass) off considerably. I began to concentrate on that bubble being in the exact center (at a micro level). You can see what it did to my grp size. SO, my question is: Is the Vortex Lo Pro Level inadequate? ... In a hunting situation I can't spend seconds making sure the level is perfect to the ultimate degree. I have an Atlas bipod. Should I put a rail mount on the bottom of that Cooper?
Anyway, this has driven me nuts. You would do my wife a big favor if you can help me solve this horizontal string problem.
Thanx,
Doug